Stephan,

I stand corrected. I'm not political, but I definitely do lean toward open 
source where possible.

The only exposure I've had to EVS is to notice that it's been deployed by 
T-Mobile USA as a late stage part of their LTE rollout.

In contrast, just about everything I use daily is Opus-capable. I do wish that 
Opus implementations were more interoperable. All the various modes do add 
complexity.

Michael Graves
[email protected]
http://www.mgraves.org
o(713) 861-4005
c(713) 201-1262
sip:[email protected]
skype mjgraves

-----Original Message-----
From: Sursound <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Stefan Schreiber
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2019 11:42 AM
To: Surround Sound discussion group <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Sursound] wifi audio (was Re: Deconstructing soundbar marketing 
B.S.)

EVS is a full-range codec, covering both speech and music compression.

Alas: the first link I gave includes tests involving both EVS and Opus.

AMR is a clear speech codec; better to see (E)LD-AAC as forerunner of EVS.

(Support included in many operating systems, including iOS and Android.

https://www.iis.fraunhofer.de/en/ff/amm/communication/aaceld.html

Just check compatibility lists?)

I am not doing politics here, please respect this. But I think representations 
have to be

balanced. You could not write a scientific article about LD audio compression 
leaving out

several codecs which are in very wide use.

The patent argument is not relevant in this context. (You were < now > 
introducing the patent 

argument in the sense that people “should” use opus. This is unrelated to the 
claim I was

disputing. Alas, you simply can’t use opus in < every > context. )

Just to clarify a few things.

Best,

Stefan Schreiber 

P.S.: I am definitively positive about Opus, but the person who is doing 
“politics” doesn’t

seem to be me. 

That “EVS is basically a revenue engine” is IMO a biased statement, because it 
has

been chosen to be a 3GPP standard. (Most companies voting not receiving EVS 
revenues.)

And yes, Opus seems to be patent-free. (Or say the SILK patents have been 
donated by

Microsoft. So actually there are some patents, but there are no fees.)

- - - -

Citando mgraves mstvp.com <[email protected]>:

> Perhaps "pinnacle" is a bit of an over statement, but the point is sound.
>
> EVS is quite capable, but note that that entire presentation makes no 
> mention of Opus at all. One arises from the 3GPP the other from the 
> IETF. Fundamentally different groups, with very different 
> perspectives.
>
> Like AMR before it, or MPEG, EVS is basically a revenue engine for the 
> various patent holders.
>
> Much of what EVS can do follows Opus, after-the-fact. The real 
> strength of EVS are the compatibility modes with legacy telecom codes 
> (AMR, AMR-WB, AMR-WB+) which virtually ensured adoption in mobile 
> telecom.
>
> Opus is open source and free to use by anyone. It also accommodates an 
> arbitrary number of channels, supporting various surround schemes.
>
> There are those who, fearing the appearance of some patent holder 
> making a claim against Opus, will prefer to pay for a license to use 
> something else.
>
> Michael Graves
>
> [email protected]
>
> http://www.mgraves.org
>
> o(713) 861-4005
>
> c(713) 201-1262
>
> sip:[email protected]
>
> skype mjgraves
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Sursound <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Stefan 
> Schreiber
>
> Sent: Friday, May 31, 2019 10:01 AM
>
> To: Surround Sound discussion group <[email protected]>
>
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] wifi audio (was Re: Deconstructing soundbar 
> marketing B.S.)
>
> (Opus)
>
>> It's basically the pinnacle of audio encoding at this point, having
>>
>> merged the best ideas from CELT, Silk and a few entirely new ones.
>>
>> It would be hard to see how any proprietary codec vendor could 
>> compete
>>
>> except where addressing a very narrow niche.
>
> - -
>
> Low delay AAC, in various versions?
>
> What about EVS?
>
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Anssi_Raemoe/publication/28260514
> 3/figure/fig6/AS:281480141651970@1444121503098/Combined-results-with-a
> ll-72-listeners-and-all-signal-types-with-increasing-bitrate-in.png
>
> Opus is really good. But the “pinnacle”?
>
> http://www.aes.org/technical/documentDownloads.cfm?docID=548
>
> “A narrow niche? “      😉🍷
>
> I would see EVS (more or less) as the low-delay version of USAC.
>
> Best,
>
> Stefan Schreiber
>
> - - -
>
> Citando mgraves mstvp.com <[email protected]>:
>
>> Chris,
>>
>> Actually, I too come from a broadcast background, having installed
>>
>> graphics systems into production and master controls for over 25
>>
>> years. I completely appreciate the demand for hard real-time and zero
>>
>> latency.
>>
>> I've tracked Opus since its earliest days in the IETF CODEC working
>>
>> group. The standard has many operative modes. It's absolutely capable
>>
>> of full-bandwidth, in both lossy and lossless modes.
>>
>> You will find it both in the production/contribution side of the 
>> house
>>
>> (remote codecs, STL, etc.) and distribution. It also dominates video
>>
>> conference space.
>>
>> It's basically the pinnacle of audio encoding at this point, having
>>
>> merged the best ideas from CELT, Silk and a few entirely new ones.
>>
>> It would be hard to see how any proprietary codec vendor could 
>> compete
>>
>> except where addressing a very narrow niche.
>>
>> Michael Graves
>>
>> [email protected]
>>
>> http://www.mgraves.org
>>
>> o(713) 861-4005
>>
>> c(713) 201-1262
>>
>> sip:[email protected]
>>
>> skype mjgraves
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>
> URL:  
> <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/201905
> 31/f2e08f40/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20190531/dadf011a/attachment.html>
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
[email protected]
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
[email protected]
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Reply via email to