Friends, I recommend taking a look at this article on the social aspect of
climate adaptation.
http://grist.org/climate-energy/understanding-the-social-limits-of-adaptation

Though Friedman believes we won't drive ourselves extinct, as usual it will
be the poor who die first.

Gay


On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 11:59 AM, Karl S North <[email protected]>wrote:

> Jon and others,
>
> Alice Freidman <http://energyskeptic.com/>, a frequent writer on the
> subject of energy descent, makes a case against extinction (reprinted
> below). Guy makes an apparently strong argument ( I have read a lot of his
> writing and heard him speak several times). But because of the complexity
> of the planetary socio-ecological system, I don't think we as a species
> know enough to say whether Alice's scenario or Guy's is more likely.
>
> We forget how little we know about how social systems behave in such
> extraordinary circumstances. Despite many important lessons from the
> historical record (all previous major civilizations have collapsed or been
> consolidated), industrial civilization has happened only once, so there is
> no historical example to learn from. It might decline quite differently
> from the others.
>
> We also forget how little grasp we really have of the planetary
> geophysical and climate systems. As an example, the repeated failure of the
> combined scientific clout of the IPCC was not enough to grasp the full
> dynamic complexity of climate change, so they had to published repeated
> revisions of their predictions.
>
> My study of systems science tells me that we can obtain a better
> understanding of the rough outlines of change in complex systems like ours
> (the "what" - energy descent leading to economic decline, etc. in the
> present case ) than we can of the "how" or especially the "when".  From
> that perspective, I think it is important to identify various probable
> scenarios to help direct education and action, but keep a somewhat open
> mind as to which is "right or wrong".
>
> I hope this helps,
>
> --
> Karl North -  http://karlnorth.com/
> "Pueblo que canta no morira" - Cuban saying
> "They only call it class warfare when we fight back" - Anon.
> "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son
> will ride a camel."
>  —Saudi saying
>
> *********
>
>   *The case against extinction*
>
> I think the end of fossil fuels and all that they enable us to do,
> including microchips and global supply chains, has a 95-98% chance of
> saving us from extinction because:
>
> 1. Carbon dioxide and methane will start to go down due to peak oil and
> coal (Hart, Heinberg, Höök, Nel, Patzek), and natural gas *Shale Oil and
> Gas Will Not Save 
> Us.*<http://energyskeptic.com/2012/shale-oil-and-gas-will-not-save-us/>
>
> 2. Our ability to do any kind of harm to any resource will diminish
> drastically once oil and oil equivalent fuels diminish because so many
> large vehicles and any other equipment with combustion engines won't
> operate any more:
>
>    - farm tractors will no longer compress and erode topsoil (or grow
>    enough food to feed 7+ billion people)
>    - earth moving machines will no longer harvest coal and other minerals
>    and metals
>    - our roads, bridges, airports, and docks will last less than 100
>    years
>    
> <http://energyskeptic.com/2013/enough-energy-left-to-rebuild-concrete-infrastructure/>because
>    we didn't build anything with cement to last over a century (unlike Roman
>    cement, which is still going strong). We won't have the energy to rebuild
>    or maintain most of our infrastructure
>    - It will be much harder to chop down (rain)forests with roads
>    crumbling and large trucks gone
>    - There won't be ships that can go to the ends of the earth to harvest
>    the last schools of fish. Marine reserves have often restored fish
>    populations faster than anyone expected.
>    - due to lack of fuel, future world wars or world war on the scale of
>    WWI & II will not be possible.  Wars will be far more local, more like
>    pre-WWI.
>    - Although biodiversity loss will probably increase initially as
>    anyone with a gun goes out hunting, that's likely to change because the
>    people who live where hunters can get to on foot or bicycle will defend
>    their territory.   The same goes for fishing and foraging.
>
> 3. The book "The Earth Without Us" gives me great hope that the earth will
> recover rather rapidly.
>
> 4. In 2075 when sea levels start to rise, so many people will have already
> died off from the decline in fossil fuels that there will be plenty of room
> for coastal dwellers to move to
>
> 5. The loss of our ability to make 
> microchips<http://energyskeptic.com/preservation-of-knowledge/>and breakdown 
> in supply chains will be nearly as important as the loss of
> oil in rapidly changing civilization back to wood-based energy, and also
> increase the rate and numbers of people dying.
>
> I don't want to diminish the suffering and tragedy of between 3 and 7
> billion people dying, of climate change wreaking harm for thousands of
> years, and the loss of much of the amazing scientific understanding we have
> of the world since so much of it is being preserved digitally instead of on
> a more permanent physical substance (i.e. imprinted on thin metal sheets,
> etc).
>
> Even though even a small nuclear 
> war<http://energyskeptic.com/2011/nuclear-winter/>would kill over 1 billion 
> people, and a nuclear
> EMP <http://energyskeptic.com/2011/em/>even more, the ozone would recover
> after 5 years, many people around the equator will be fine, others will
> have stockpiled enough food to get by.
>
> All of the 9 planetary 
> boundaries<http://energyskeptic.com/2011/9-planetery-boundaries/>will 
> diminish as human population declines from lack of fossil fuels.  Peak
> phosphorous will come even sooner without fossil-fuel driven vehicles and
> equipment to harvest and transport it.
>
> This is too big a topic to list every factor and how it might turn out as
> you can see from the menu items in Decline and Collapse at
> energyskeptic.com.  Yes, extinction is a possibility if too many of these
> happen at once over just a few centuries.
> But since both human population and energy resources are likely to decline
> exponentially rather quickly, we won't be able to do the harm we are now,
> to the planet or ourselves, and that has a good chance of saving us from
> extinction.
>
> Alice Friedemann
>
> References
>
> Hart, Phil. 15 Nov 2010. Oil Demand to Decline in the West, according to
> International Energy Agency.  http://anz.theoildrum.com/node/7114
>
> Heinberg, R., Fridley, D. The end of cheap coal. New forecasts suggest
> that coal reserves will run out faster than many believe. Nature 468,
> 367-369 (18 November 2010) doi:10.1038/468367a
>
> Höök, M., Sivertsson, A. & Aleklett, K. "Validity of the fossil fuel
> production outlooks in the IPCC Emission Scenarios" Natural Resources
> Research, 2010, Vol. 19, Issue 2: 63-81
>
> Nel and Cooper (2009) Implications of fossil fuel constraints on economic
> growth and global warming, Energy Policy 37: 166-180.
>
> Patzek, T, Croft, G. A global coal production forecast with multi-Hubbert
> cycle analysis.  Energy 35 (2010) 3109e3122
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
----------------------------------------------------
Gay Nicholson, Ph.D.
President
Sustainable Tompkins
109 S. Albany St.
Ithaca, NY 14850

www.sustainabletompkins.org


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