> -----Original Message-----
> From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2004 1:22 PM
> To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [biofuel] climate changes
> 
> >David Edelstein (The Ice Age Cometh) for Slate:
> >
> http://slate.msn.com/id/2101386/
> 
> Trivial.

It was clear that David Edelstein had an ax to grind.
 
> >If anything we will have lows moving
> >very cold polar air masses south, which would have close to the same
> >effect except on a larger scale.
> 
> Too soon to tell.

Not if you understand how and why weather works.

> >The "Greenhouse effect", "global warming" and ice age are all
related.
> >Our production of the greenhouse gases "MAY" have speeded up a
natural
> >process but it didn't cause it.
> 
> The "Greenhouse effect" is not a natural process, or at least it's
> never happened before, or not on Planet Earth anyway, or not during
> the period that Planet Earth has been graced with a biosphere. It
> seems you don't know what it is. Try Venus.

I may not have been clear.  Greenhouse gases may be speeding up global
warming.  There is also many greenhouse gases which are natural created
by decay and volcanoes.  What I was saying that there is evident that
ice ages were triggered by global warming and that it is a natural
cycle.  There is also evident that hydrocarbons contribute to the global
warming process. 
 
> If instead it flips into an Ice Age, that is a natural process
> indeed, but causing it to arrive a few hundred years early would
> amount to something more than just an "Ooops!"

I agree.

> A few degrees of global warming that then levels off will be quite
> disruptive and destructive enough.

Again I agree, but most of public don't see the problem.

> As it is, a new Ice Age is still not seen as the most likely scenario.

A new Ice Age is a given, it is only a question of when.

> 
> >The bottom line is that it doesn't
> >matter.
> 
> Uh-huh. So, what? - so go on burning up fossil fuel resources,
> releasing CO2 and so on and generally living like there's no tomorrow?

Our options are fairly limited.  At current rate we have at most 30-50
years of oil.
 
> :-) A few months ago, and indeed still, so many people in the US were
> pooh-poohing it all and claiming there wasn't any science, but now
> it's all cut and dried, eh? Sorry, but that is a preposterous
> statement. 

Good science is to learn and adapt based on new data.  Until the Gulf
Stream started to move it, it was just a theory.  Scientist are very
slow to change their theories.   

> 
> >Discussing the cause is really a waste of time.
> 
> Without discussion, study and investigation of all types of the cause
> and all other factors involved, and how they might affect one
> another, no doubt your claim above that there's nothing to be done
> would come true. Fortunately, most humans are less passive and
> stoical than that.

For me if the trigger is pulled I don't care who pulled it.  I just want
to get out of the way of the bullet.  Even if the trigger hasn't been
pulled yet there is very little to be done even if we knew that stopping
use of hydro-carbons would stop global warming and all the problems it
may cause.  It couldn't be done in less than 20-30 years, which we have
to do anyway because of lack of oil.

> I don't think you checked any of those refs, did you? Or not to much
> avail anyway.

Yes, I did.  I also didn't stop at that.  I have done my own thought
experiments.  I believe that global warming will melt the polar ice and
cause the ocean conveyor to move and/or shutdown.  I believe this
process has already started and that we will be in some form of an ice
age within 10-30 years or sooner.  I hope I am totally wrong.  I pray
that I am totally wrong.

I have said my piece.  Take or leave it.  I don't care.  You can have
the last word.

73

--
Darryl Wagoner - WA1GON
Past President - Nashua Area Radio Club
"Evil triumphs when good men do nothing."  - Edmund Burke [1729-1797]

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