The choice of paper feedstocks for biogas production does not lead toward high volumes of biogas production. The solubility of wood fiber used in paper is much lower than fresh feedstocks like grass, foodwaste, oily seed stocks, etc. As a result, the low amount of digestible cellulose in the biogas water solution is very low and you are required to handle, filter, heat, pump, etc much larger quantities of liquids to obtain the same amount of biogas. This drives the already limited economics of the process even lower.
A good use for phone books is to convert them into home insulation. During the 70's and 80's, I ran my own cellulose insulation manufacturing plant that processed approximately 5000 tons per year of phone books into cellulose insulation for use in the home construction industry. This material will continue to conserve significant amounts of fossil fuels for the duration of its' existence. My emotional commitment to the insulation industry was based on the fact that it is cheaper to conserve energy than it is to make new energy so that is where I wanted to be to make my contribution. Art Krenzel, P.E. PHOENIX TECHNOLOGIES 10505 NE 285TH Street Battle Ground, WA 98604 360-666-1883 voice [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- Original Message ----- From: Phil To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; firstname.lastname@example.org Cc: Norm Edwards Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 4:20 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re-Cycling and Biofuels regarding: http://www.pureenergysystems.com/news/2004/05/17/off-grid_college/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] Stuart, Thank you very much for your observations, Stuart. While we are considering the gasification units, I am concerned that we do not have a cheap or free source of consistent fuel for these units. Telephone books have been suggested, but I believe there are still issues to be worked out. (See note below.) The digester seems like a much quieter and less prone to problems approach that will work with a variety of materials--including kitchen refuse, grass clippings and rotted hay that farmers don't want. Methane can be safely piped and used with off-the shelf natural gas appliances. Two questions: 1.) How do digester systems work in the winter? Can they be placed below ground? Or do they make enough heat that they can be placed above ground and just insulated in the winter? 2.) How does one separate the CO2 and CH4 if one does NOT have hard water? I assume that a source of flowing water would normally by used to bubble the gasses through, but if the water is soft to begin with can it be used effectively? Are there other methods? Thank you very much -- Norman Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] Snail: PO Box 107; Perry, Michigan 48872; USA Tel: 517-625-7480 Fax: 517-625-7481Using Telephone books for fuel. There is probably enough energy in a telephone book to make it worth moving a truckload of them to Port Austin to use for energy. The question is: what is the cost of collecting telephone books in large quantities? Collecting them in recycling centers would probably be cheapest way. The problem is that each family only has a few telephone books--not like newspapers, bottles and cans which they accumulate daily. 1. What percentage of people and businesses would actually bring their phone books to a recycling center? 2. It is not economical for people to individually mail/ship their used phone books to a recycling center. At the best rates, this would cost a couple of dollars per book. 10,000 phone books might make good fuel, but nobody wants to pay $20,000 to get them. 3. Picking up old phone books when new ones are delivered has been suggested, but is very questionable. A large percentage of people will not be home when they are delivered (businesses will be better when delivered in business hours.) However, many people and businesses do not want to get rid of their old book right away as they may have notes in it. Others will not instantly know where their books are and some will have already disposed of them. The simple cost of a delivery person waiting several minutes for old phonebooks to be found will add significantly to the cost of obtaining them. (However, if picking up old telephone books were done by volunteers, in combination with preaching the gospel, this might be a viable thing.) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 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