Your web sites about how bad Israel is don't mean a lot in this discussion - all I'm saying is that if I had an enemy living as close to me as Syria is to Israel, I wouldn't let them keep the high ground after they had started shelling me from it either - regardless of whether or not they owned it. Just like if someone else's kid shoots me or my property with a BB gun, I take the gun away before I inform their parents that they won't get it back.
You can hate Israel or love it as you choose - I don't care how you feel about them, but their military strategists are right on in keeping Golan to defend themselves against a neighbor who proved themselves to be hostile when they began shelling Israel from that position in an effort to destroy Israel. If I were in Israel's shoes, I would do exactly the same thing. As for the attack on the USS Liberty, I'm no expert and certainly don't believe I've heard the whole story just from reading these two web sites, but even if these two web sites do tell the whole story, we'd have to see a lot more anti-American action from Israel before distancing ourselves from them became an even remotely palatable idea. Just like the French are still our allies after the recent discoveries of their illegal arms sales to Saddam Hussein and after the "accidental" bombing of the French Embassy in Libya, sometimes human beings make flawed decisions and one or two of these is not a reason to sever relationships or to have a policy reversal. Dan -----Original Message----- From: Gustl Steiner-Zehender [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 4:29 PM To: Dan Fitzpatrick Subject: Re: [biofuel] wondering about this comment Hallo Dan, Go check out these sites and then come back and defend Israel. http://www.wrmea.com/backissues/0693/9306019.htm http://home.cfl.rr.com/gidusko/liberty/ This is the biofuels list and then some. No topic cops. Happy Happy, Gustl Tuesday, 15 June, 2004, 13:10:08, you wrote: DF> I visited Israel recently and toured the Golan among other places. DF> The Golan is the perfect place for anyone bent on the destruction of DF> Israel (like Syria professes to be) to possess so that they can just DF> drop their artillery shells on the most inhabitted sections of the DF> country. That's what they tried to do in 1967 and there is DF> absolutely no reason for anyone to believe that they will not repeat DF> that if they ever get the Golan back. The only way Israel can be DF> secure is to retain the Golan and keep those people who wish to see Israel destroyed off of it. DF> But isn't this supposed to be the biofuels list? DF> Dan DF> -----Original Message----- DF> From: Hakan Falk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] DF> Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 11:57 AM DF> To: firstname.lastname@example.org DF> Subject: Re: [biofuel] wondering about this comment DF> Steve, DF> This is one of the worse things I heard for a long - long time. We DF> have international laws that regulate this and none is supporting DF> your and Israel's view about individual ownership, as you are DF> stating it. It might have been true some hundreds years ago, but DF> today ownership must be respected. This have nothing to do with what DF> the state occupies whoever, they are obliged by international law to DF> respect individual property rights. An occupier have the obligation DF> to protect the occupied population and provide a secure environment DF> in accordance to international law and human rights. Israel does nothing of either. DF> Personally I feel cheated, since I have for so long supported Israel DF> and its right to live in peace and security. How can this state that DF> for so long and in such a high degree, solicited and got my support, DF> commit such crimes today. DF> Every time I look at what you are saying, it get me more and more DF> upset and how can anyone be so f-ing stupid. I do not normally get DF> so upset and it is not good for my health. My friend, you do not fit DF> in the modern society, with respect for human rights. How can anyone DF> support land grab and stealing from individuals, who are the victims DF> of a conflict between states and not personally responsible. DF> How could you, Israel and the US government develop such a barbarian DF> view. DF> The negligence by US to follow the international laws in Iraq, might DF> be a sign of both the US and Israel ignorance. Leaders and DF> government of countries are expected to follow international laws, DF> if not, they are criminals. Both US and Israel are bound to these DF> laws and have ratified them, their behavior is not supportable. DF> Hakan DF> At 15:43 15/06/2004, you wrote: >> >I am a neutral observer. To distinguish between what is just and >> >what is not. Jews have taken other peoples' homes and have driven >> >them out of their land. >> > i understand that all the arabs have accepted the fact that Isreal >> >is to exist. They have offered to live in peace provided Isreal >> >returns all the land it stole from the arabs in 1967. Why have Jews >> >rejected it? >> >>If this person went to work.. made money that he earned would he feel >>that the money still belongs to his employer? >> >>When you capture territories in a war ... they are yours.. not the >>people you captured it from. These are the same things.. >> >>That is why the Jews have rejected giving the land back. It is theirs.. >>they were attacked... they won. >> >>End of story... this was not a land grab...this was the spoils of war. -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. Mitglied-Team AMIGA ICQ: 22211253-Gustli ******** The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. 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