Sorry Bob,

Should have been http://journeytoforever.org/
I have to improve my eye for spelling mistakes. .

Hakan


At 06:02 16/06/2004, you wrote:

>Bob,
>
>Have you visited <http://jouneytofoever.org/>http://jouneytofoever.org/ 
>and read it? If so, I think
>that you will understand that this group is about supporting biofuels,
>allocation, use and development of the world resources. This for the good
>of the whole world and not only a selected "elite". It has attracted a lot
>of very interesting and caring individuals, who are truly interested in the
>use of energy resources to the benefit of mankind. It is nearly impossible
>to be genuinely interested in alternative energy resources or energy
>conservation and not get involved in attitude and political views. To do
>anything connected with energy for the future generations, also means an
>uphill battle with oil industry interests, who really would like to narrow
>fuel discussions to the level you suggest.
>
>Do not think about the distribution of wealth and energy use, it is not
>good for you.
>
>Do not thinks about how the energy wealth are used, you will not like it.
>
>Why should you conserve or produce energy, they will fix it for you, so do
>not worry about politics.
>
>Why should you make your own fuel or at distributed scale, they and their
>politicians will take care of you, or at least 10% of the world population
>you belong to. Do not worry about the others.
>
>I can go on and 35 years of experience from all road blocks that can be
>thrown at you, if you are able to prove that we can easily save more than
>50% of the energy use in residential and commercial buildings. No politics,
>huh? If the obstacles are not removed and we do not create a much better
>and cooperative environment for solving energy problems, we will not get
>anywhere and the consequences will be enormous. We also take the risk that
>the 90% will try to destroy the 10%. Except NZ of course, which have a
>great advantage in its location and can neglect the situation.
>
>NZ is also one of the most beautiful places on earth, privileged by its
>resources and small population. North Island is like an combination of
>England and Iceland (in summer) and South Island like Norway. With
>biofuels, you could probably shut the door to the problems of the rest of
>the world. No wonder that you do not like to hear about them. I have to
>remind you that I responded on an outrageous posting and I think that it
>was justified.
>
>About what is suitable topics for the list, I will leave to Keith.
>
>Hakan
>
>
>At 04:16 16/06/2004, you wrote:
> >Hi Hakan,
> >                 With respect to you and Dan, this is a biofuels group, 
> not a
> >political discussion seminar. If all the hot air generated by the
> >Israeli/Arab question were bottled and pipe-fed worldwide we'd could close
> >this chatline and run our vehicles forever on the energy.
> >For the record, the State of Israel is not recognised by any Arab nation
> >other than Egypt. Worse, they have official policies in place to destroy it.
> >Whatever your view you can only join one side or the other. Allotting blame
> >is pointless. The war, which started with Abraham and his sheepherders
> >moving into Canaan (Israel) some 4,000 years ago, will continue until one
> >side or the other runs out of motivation (i.e.dollars or energy).
> >Until then, let's get back to biofuels.
> >Regards to you both.
> >Bob.
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Hakan Falk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: <biofuel@yahoogroups.com>
> >Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 1:12 PM
> >Subject: RE: [biofuel] wondering about this comment
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Dan,
> > >
> > > I fail to see how you can make such an answer to what I said. What 
> you are
> > > saying have nothing at all to do with the issues that I bring up in my
> > > posting. This about most inhabited part of the country, have you ever 
> been
> > > visiting Israel? Do you really understand the geography and can you get
> > > further away from Palestinians, than this corner part of Golan 
> heights and
> > > Lebanese/Syrian border? Why do you have to say this ignorant things, it
> > > attacks my naive beliefs on the superior human intellect.
> > >
> > > Hakan
> > >
> > >
> > > At 19:10 15/06/2004, you wrote:
> > >
> > > >I visited Israel recently and toured the Golan among other places.  The
> > > >Golan is the perfect place for anyone bent on the destruction of Israel
> > > >(like Syria professes to be) to possess so that they can just drop their
> > > >artillery shells on the most inhabitted sections of the country.  That's
> > > >what they tried to do in 1967 and there is absolutely no reason for
> > > >anyone to believe that they will not repeat that if they ever get the
> > > >Golan back.  The only way Israel can be secure is to retain the Golan
> > > >and keep those people who wish to see Israel destroyed off of it.
> > > >
> > > >But isn't this supposed to be the biofuels list?
> > > >
> > > >Dan
> > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > >From: Hakan Falk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 11:57 AM
> > > >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> > > >Subject: Re: [biofuel] wondering about this comment
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Steve,
> > > >
> > > >This is one of the worse things I heard for a long - long time. We have
> > > >international laws that regulate this and none is supporting your and
> > > >Israel's view  about individual ownership, as you are stating it. It
> > > >might have been true some hundreds years ago, but today ownership must
> > > >be respected. This have nothing to do with what the state occupies
> > > >whoever, they are obliged by international law to respect individual
> > > >property rights. An occupier have the obligation to protect the occupied
> > > >population and provide a secure environment in accordance to
> > > >international law and human rights. Israel does nothing of either.
> > > >Personally I feel cheated, since I have for so long supported Israel and
> > > >its right to live in peace and security. How can this state that for so
> > > >long and in such a high degree, solicited and got my support, commit
> > > >such crimes today.
> > > >
> > > >Every time I look at what you are saying, it get me more and more upset
> > > >and how can anyone be so f-ing stupid. I do not normally get so upset
> > > >and it is not good for my health. My friend, you do not fit in the
> > > >modern society, with respect for human rights. How can anyone support
> > > >land grab and stealing from individuals, who are the victims of a
> > > >conflict between states and not personally responsible.
> > > >
> > > >How could you, Israel and the US government develop such a barbarian
> > > >view.
> > > >The negligence by US to follow the international laws in Iraq, might be
> > > >a sign of both the US and Israel ignorance. Leaders and government  of
> > > >countries are expected to follow international laws, if not, they are
> > > >criminals. Both US and Israel are bound to these laws and have ratified
> > > >them, their behavior is not supportable.
> > > >
> > > >Hakan
> > > >
> > > >At 15:43 15/06/2004, you wrote:
> > > > > >I am a neutral observer. To distinguish between what  is just and
> > > > > >what is not. Jews have taken other  peoples' homes and have driven
> > > > > >them out of their land.
> > > > > > i understand that all the arabs have accepted the fact  that Isreal
> > > > > >is to exist. They have offered to live in  peace provided Isreal
> > > > > >returns all the land it stole  from the arabs in 1967. Why have Jews
> > > > > >rejected it?
> > > > >
> > > > >If this person went to work.. made money that he earned would he feel
> > > > >that the money still belongs to his employer?
> > > > >
> > > > >When you capture territories in a war ... they are yours.. not the
> > > > >people you captured it from.  These are the same things..
> > > > >
> > > > >That is why the Jews have rejected giving the land back. It is 
> theirs..
> > > >
> > > > >they were attacked... they won.
> > > > >
> > > > >End of story... this was not a land grab...this was the spoils of war.
>
>
>
>
>Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
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>
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