One of the exciting aspects of district heating is that the heat from the steam can be transferred to a hot water system or a hot air system. Just about whatever natural gas was heating, can be done with district steam. So you don't have to retrofit every building on order to connect it with district heat. You just need transfer plates for each building. However the one kind of heat I wonder whether it may not be possible is steam heated buildings: I think there would be too much loss in the transfer to CREATE steam; but I think some types of steam heat are compatible.

I propose a moratorium on the Commons rebuild until this is explored fully!

Margaret


On Dec 13, 2009, at 1:10 AM, Gay Nicholson wrote:

Another conversation going on about the Commons involves researching the possibility of laying district heating pipes while the Commons is torn up so that we can heat our public buildings with biomass. Bruce Abbott hosted the visit of some Danish engineers who gave several talks about this technology
being used in Europe.  I've always hoped to see biomass-based district
heating as part of the Southwest Park green development (if that project ever happens). But much better would be to see district heating downtown for our government buildings, and maybe even some of the Commons retail
buildings, such as Center Ithaca.

Gay

On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 11:14 PM, Margaret McCasland
<[email protected]>wrote:

Great post!  (FYI partial caveat: the the COmmons proposal is a
rebuild--which is sort of somewhat needed; most of the current concrete is
cracked and buckled).

But your overall post is very well said and needed saying.

Margaret



On Dec 12, 2009, at 4:43 PM, [email protected] wrote:


I agree. There is no rational reason for drilling Marcellus and no reason
not to oppose it.  Not only will it lay waste to our region and most
likely,poison our drinking water with hazardous chemicals and even
radioactive
elements. it will contribute to global climate change thereby jeopardizing
everyone. In addition to the statistic Martha Robertson quoted the
Planning
Dep't that operation from one well would have twice the greenhouse gas emissions as the entire operations of Tomp Co government for a year, I
have just
read in the comments made on the dSGEIS by the Seneca Lake Pure Waters
Association that "analyses "carried out during the past year by Rice
University in the Dallas-Fort Worth Metroplex, results have shown that
drilling
related emissions of carbon dioxide and two other major greenhouse gases underlying climate change were estimated to be roughly equivalent to the
impact
from two 750 Megawatt coal-fired plants".

_http://www.senecalake.org/_ (http://www.senecalake.org/)

As for Ithaca College, it cannot convert all its buildings overnight. The
campus has made a considerable commitment to sustainability.

Just because we as communities and individuals have not yet achieved Best Practice perfection in all things does not mean that we have to submit to
the  will of huge corporations in their "drill baby drill" lust for
profit. As
Tony  said why should we or any other community "suffer the same
catastrophic fate" as those before us? It will only make the situation
worse for
everyone. Communities and states (and one would hope nations, finally,)
must
"draw the  line in the sand" for the health,safety, security and
protection of
all.

And, again, all indications are that the extensive energy-intensive
operations of hydro-fracturing will accelerate not slow climate change.
It is not
part of a clean energy transistion.

BTW has anyone seen that corporate ad that starts out extolling the
virtues
of alternatives to oil dependence and ends with the words "natural gas,
the  best alternative." What a perniciously clever piece of
propaganda!....and
what  do you suppose was the instigation for it???........

I do agree that demolishing the Ithaca Commons to build yet more
restaurants requiring yet more gas lines would be a horrendous and
hypocritical
waste, not to mention of course the Commons' importance to the life of
the City
and County and beyond. That proposal just stuns me. Demolishing the
Commons, would, in addition to other impacts, require substantial energy
inputs
and seriously damage the City/County goal of reducing GHG emissions.

Jeanne










In a message dated 12/12/2009 1:13:12 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:

George,
Your arguments are compelling but not persuasive to me. As  modern
industrial
civilization comes down (if it really does come down voluntarily) from
its
fossil fuel addictions, how much of the water & land is to be plundered? Should we all be suffering the same catastrophic fate as those who had no choice or were ignorant of the hazards, or those who saw only the dollar signs in their mining & drilling? The cliches from Copenhagen, Leave the
Oil
in the Soil and the Coal in the Hole, I would add, let's pass on the gas. Moral righteouness is not enough to convince me that it's okay to drill
and
threaten what we have. We only compound the problem locally and then some when we transport the radioactive water to "where?" Let's hold our ground with whatever "relatively" clean water & land we have, anywhere in the
world.
Tony  Del Plato

On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 12:57 PM, George Frantz <[email protected]>
wrote:


--- On Wed, 12/9/09, Jan  Quarles <[email protected]> wrote:

"I hope you're not asking that question as a way, yet again, to say that
protesting  fracking is morally wrong as long as the protestors are

heating

with  gas. That's a trap that could have a chilling effect on the
learning
curve."


+++++++
Sorry, Jan, but that is exactly the point of my question regarding how
IC
heats its  buildings.





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--
----------------------------------------------------
Gay Nicholson, Ph.D.
President
Sustainable Tompkins
109 S. Albany St.
Ithaca, NY 14850

www.sustainabletompkins.org


607-533-7312 (home office)
607-220-8991 (cell)
607-216-1552 (ST office)
607-216-1553 (ST fax)

[email protected]
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