>    No it doesn't it implies that the geometry is calculated, nothing
> needs to be rendered.  That is typically the act of putting bits on a
> device, and is generally much more expensive than just calculating the
> bbox of content.

Sorry, that is a good distinction-- however I have seen renderers that 
build cached primitives in either GDI+ or Java2D or whatever for each 
item (in SharpVectorGraphics, this is a GraphicsNode and creates the 
Graphics context for the object). This *is* an expensive operation and 
needs to at the very lest query the device for information regarding 
capabilities and extents (unless that information is already cached).

>    Batik maintains geometry as the DOM is manipulated, we do not 
> 'rerender' 
> on every change.

I could be misinterpreting some results from tests I had run (maybe 6 
months ago) that showed otherwise. In fact I think we may have even 
discussed this on this list ;) But what I saw was that in very long 
iterative functions the *display* in squiggle was updated before the 
function completed. This was not the behavior of other renderers 
(including at the time, Deerpark, Ksvg2, ASV3/6) SharpVectorGraphics 
doesn't have scripting support so it wasn't tested. Again, there could 
have been a correlating factor that I missed... I tend to trust your 
opinion, Doug's opinion, and Jonathan's opinion over mine... :)

Cheers,
Jeff Rafter

> 
> 
>>Which is to say that this type of problem isn't unexpected-- but you 
>>have to be able to obtain those rendering properties on the fly. Even if 
> 
> 
>>you can do that though, the resulting page will likely be sub-optimal.
> 
> 
>    In what sense 'sub-optimal'?  You almost certainly need to calculate
> the BBox in order to render the content, so why does doing it before the
> rendering make it worse than during the render? 
> 
> 
> 
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