Ronan, as an accessibility consultant I use a variety of equipment and operating systems, linux since '97-'98**, OS X currently and windows whenever, certainly all three every workday.
Accessibility has to be included at each level, from document through to application and operating system. It is possible and indeed likely that there may be conflicts, and this is only one reason why it is critical that accessibility is included at each level. Indeed KDE, Gnome and Mozilla each have helpful accessibility experts. It is important to separate out DOM level keyboard events such as text entry from the general application functionality to which 1.1 refers. At the document level it may for instance be essential to provide some visual indicator to the keyboard user to help them identify where they are. in HTML this is frequently a border around the graphic or a change of background colour. This can be done by the application, but is frequently controlled by the author. These de facto standards have arisen for HTML but are remarkably absent from SVG at the present time: See WCAG 2.4: Provide mechanisms to help users find content, orient themselves within it, and navigate through it. and 2.4.8 in particular: "Using an icon or text to indicate current location within navigation bars." http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/guidelines.html#navigation-mechanisms Arbitrary links are likely to be confusing for most users, what is needed are standards derived through experience. There is to date remarkably little keyboard navigation data available for SVG which makes it harder to create techniques and guidelines. Chris Lilley: "an SVG techniques document would help" http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2005Dec/0044.html Do please try our keyboard navigation using ff1.5 at http:// www.peepo.com/index.svg to see how we have attempted to meet 2.4.8. use the 'tab' key to navigate, 'shift + tab' to go back through the links. regards Jonathan Chetwynd Accessible Solutions http://www.eas-i.co.uk **My install instructions for the dell latitude 433mc, which is possibly one of the earliest colour(8) laptops to run linux, remained at linux-laptops for many years! This machine was never capable of running windows, but happily ran tweaked linux games for our students in ~4Mb. On 19 Dec 2005, at 15:05, Ronan Oger wrote: Jonathan, > 1.1 "Ensure that the user can operate, through keyboard input alone, > any user agent functionality available through the user interface." This capability already exists in all serious OS's, and adding this functionality on Yet Another Layer will only create confusion where none is required. When we talk about keyboard events, we are talking about the svg-document-level undersranding of the context of a keypress (such as the letter 'p' in the text-entry context). And I agree that SVG implementations need to address this. However, I also believe that this is best handled through scripting (ie programatically) rather than declaratively. The idea of using key events to trigger mouse pointer events does not need to be part of this discussion because this is already handled at the OS level and because it is generally desirable to have consistent behaviour accross the entire window manager (MS Windows in your case, I presume). Adding this to the SVG app level will add nothing to usability and will serve only to make the SVG app architect's job more difficult. In Linux, for example, mouse and keyboard events can be linked arbitrarily and interchanged at will. Because of this, it is critical that an app developer not be able to arbitrarily impose their own mappings which may render the UI inoperable. It is simply not the job of SVG to know what the input methods are. This is an OS-level or user-inter-face-level problem. If we allow the SVG canvas to have different fundamental behaviour than the OS does, then we will cause a rat's nest of complications. I don't know how windows handles this, but in linux systems, if you want to use your keyboard(s) to define mouse events, it is a trivial problem. Presumably, windows XP is a reasonably well written application. Can it not handle arbitrary pointing device setups, including keyboard mappings...? Ronan On Monday 19 December 2005 09:25, you wrote: > "Ensure that the user can operate, through keyboard input alone, any > user agent functionality available through the user interface." > > Ronan, > > This distinctly is an SVG issue, which was drawn to your attention at > our SVG meeting in London**. > > your quote* is an admission of error, not an exclusion, and it is > important that this is acknowledged. > Please refer to the SVG accessibility appendix H: > http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/REC-SVG11-20030114/access.html > and UAAG Guideline 1 in particular: > http://www.w3.org/TR/UAAG10/guidelines.html#gl-device-independence > > 1.1 "Ensure that the user can operate, through keyboard input alone, > any user agent functionality available through the user interface." > > I remain grateful to the firefox SVG team for resolving this matter > in bug: > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=259062 > but have no control over their method. > > regards > > Jonathan Chetwynd > Accessible Solutions > http://www.eas-i.co.uk > > > > On 17 Dec 2005, at 19:38, Ronan Oger wrote: > > *"As in DOM2 Key events, the SVG specification does not provide a > key event > set. An event set designed for use with keyboard input devices will be > included in a later version of the DOM and SVG specifications." > > **There were many outcomes including: http://svg-whiz.com/BAM/#key- > mapping and > http://jan.kollhof.net/projects/svg/examples/focus.svg was in fact > presented. -- Ronan Oger Director RO IT Systems GmbH ...Building Web2.0 with SVG since 2001 http://www.roitsystems.com ----- To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit my membership" ---- SPONSORED LINKS Computer internet security Computer internet business Computer internet access Computer internet privacy securities Computer internet help How to format a computer hard drive YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "svg-developers" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------ Yahoo! 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