Hi Roman. For the record.
I should not answer your twice "attacking" me on this list. . The first time you accuse me "OUT OF THEIR MIND" when you asking me to help "Batik" instead of do my way. . And now : work on non-windows versions : I know you work base a lot on Linux FF and Batik. . The rest of your argument: I don' have to and I don't want to answer. You and I come from different background it may drive you to think one way while other may think other way. Thanks but no thanks Phi On 6/9/06, Ronan Oger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Friday 02 June 2006 22:44, Phi Tran wrote: > > I like to share with you all some of my thoughts based on reasoning and > my > > observation and as result on some of my experience: > > > > 1- You all know having a very good welcome and much more potential then > > "FLASH". Adobe has more reputation then Macromedia, they an easily push > it > > thru to become wide accepted standard but they choose other way around?. > It > > tell me something that either they could not find the talented resource > > enough to make it thru or the architect of it has some flaws/hurdle to > make > > SVG become inferior or both. To me this is admittance on Adobe part that > > SVG will not serve their purpose and inferior to Flash? > > > > 2- We have got into this dilemma: > > > > a- If we put everything (Script and event) inside the SVG then 'SVG" can > > not access external elements. Then this is nothing more then an other > > 'Flash". In this case I have not seen any player can have it technically > > competitive yet simply it's veeeeeeery slow. I personally have done some > > research on "Batik" and "FF" on this matter and I don't think that > > architect can helping me to overcome this hurdle. > > > I can not follow your point. Put everything "inside" what? SVG is a > natively-supported standard for all modern browsers. Even stone-aged IE is > > implementing it natively. In other words, except for those users who > insist > on using 2000 technology, SVG is natively supported in their browser. > Therefore there is no such thing as an inaccesible element. You have an > svg > page, and you render it. Or you have an xhtml page, and you render it. > There > is nothing to add beyond this, as there is nothing "outside" of that > document > context. > > Your arguments appear to be firmly stuck in 2001. > > > b- If we put the SVG outside of the player and/or using SVG-outside > > javascript making SVG as a part of the DOM. I have give up on this when > all > > time and every time IE will fails me if there is about 5-6000 elements > > total I have not come up with the exact number yet but 6000 is a sure > shot. > > FF other hand do not fail me on about 7000 yet but it cost me two arms > and > > a leg to have an element update. (I have not counting the loading time > > yet). > > Again, what player? There is no "player" except for stand-alone players > such > as SVG players on mobile systems. Are you referring to the legacy 2001 > Adobe > SVG viewer plugin? Phi, that was almost six years ago. You might consider > developing around modern tools. > > > > > c- As some have suggested: Take the code from Batik or FF then make it > work > > on IE? building a "Me too" ? It is not going to be better either -I > > think?-. > > > > Not a good idea, since IE are already solving their own problem. > > > d- I do believe the VML plug-gin for none IE may be more appealing to > big > > player such as Google map then having SVG or even MS live local ? > > > > 3- Let's be real: Just give me an percentage of client that does not > have > > access to IE. You can have 15-20% of the client that have FF or Opera. > > Among them how many does not have access to IE ? I think this number is > > veeeeery small. > > Phi, Do you really want to exclude Mac OSX users (you know, the cool > people > with too much money) from your user base? What about mobile users? There > are > more web browsers on mobile phones than on desktops already, and everyone > knows that the desktop market is stagnant. > > > > > 4- Does Microsoft having any incentive to have SVG "natively support" ?. > > give these facts/fact-toids > > > > Well, they have enough incentive to be reportedly working on it. > > > a- They already have VML. > > > > b- It does not take much time to get the open source then make it become > an > > plug-gin activeX as of AVG. As the way MS does in the pass with "filer > > activeX"; 99% percent of the development are already there?. I think > this > > will become one more "Flash" inferior product. Not counting that MS are > > competing with Adobe on other areas of the Web development? > > Another ActiveX "Me too" ? > > > > I doubt anyone will ever roll out another activeX component. That is far > too > lame. > > > c- "Hope" come when other browsers are supporting SVG? will it cause MS > > to support SVG?. Without any other development we are all hung by a > thread. > > ASV is an ActiveX which is OS application now it works on XP, 2000. Does > it > > work on Vista? LongHorn?. > > > > Where is hope? You should read the tech news more. Ever heard of Nokia? or > of > OSX? You are right, plugins are pretty much doomed. The only answer is > native > SVG and xhtml support in mainstream browsers. > > > > > > > ONLY THE FUTURE WILL TELL. > > > > Your arguments are about 2 years out of date. I suggest you read the > technical > press and newsgroup listings. At the European SVG Workshop last April, I > recall only one of ten presenters using IE6. As well, four of the > presentations were done on Macs. > > People may have access to IE, but generally speaking, they only use it > under > duress. Please tone down the FUD in your emails. It does little more than > spread misinformation around the newsgroups. At the very least, check your > > facts before spewing. Instead, why not try to make your application *work* > on > non-windows platform. > > Ronan > > > > > Thanks > > > > Phi > > > > On 6/2/06, Jeff Schiller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<jeff_schiller%40hotmail.com>> > wrote: > > > Actually, digging a little more the spec > > > (http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/attindex.html) says that xlink:href is not > > > defined for the script element after all. Is this something that all > > > implementations have just decided to do anyway? Seems sensible and it > > > currently works in ASV, Opera, and Firefox... > > > > > > And what is the externalResourcesRequired attribute all about? > > > > > > Now I'm confused... > > > > > > Jeff > > > > > > --- In [email protected]<svg-developers%40yahoogroups.com>, > "Jeff Schiller" > > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > This is one of the things which confused me in the very beginning. > > > > The <script> element in SVG is not exactly the same as the <script> > > > > element in HTML. It is not obvious how to include external scripts > > > > from the spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/script.html#ScriptElement > > > > It's like the specification is intentionally confusing on this > point. > > > > > > > > You have to use the xlink:href attribute, not the src attribute. > > > > Furthermore, the xlink namespace needs to be defined up front on > your > > > > SVG element: > > > > > > > > <svg version="1.1" ... > > > > onload="init();" > > > > xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"; > > > > xmlns:xlink="http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink"; > > > > > > > > <script xlink:href="yourscript.js"/> > > > > </svg> > > > > > > > > Another option is to include the script in the body of the <script> > > > > element (be sure to use CDATA block if you use characters like <, >, > > > > > > etc). > > > > > > > Also, if all your functionality is happening in the SVG file > directly, > > > > I advise you to do away with the referencing HTML document as it > > > > serves no purpose. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Jeff > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected]<svg-developers%40yahoogroups.com>, > "Pramod Eligeti." > > > > > > > > <pramodcse@> wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > i just have a simple doubt in SVG. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. <body scroll="no"> > > > > > <embed src="WorldView.svg" type="image/svg+xml" width="100%" > > > > > height="100% > > > > > > > > > > "pluginspage="http://www.adobe.com/svg/viewer/install/main.html";> > > > > > <div id="infoDiv"></div> > > > > > </body> > > > > > -------------------------> here i am including the SVG "WorldView" > > > > > document in the XHTML page. > > > > > > > > > > 2. <script type="text/javascript" language="javascript" > > > > > src="ClientEventHandler.js"> </script> > > > > > <script type="text/javascript" language="javascript" > > > > > src="XMLHttpRequest.js"> </script> > > > > > > > > > > ------------------> i have included these 2 java script files in > the > > > > > same XHTML page which have functions > > > > > > > > > > for Init n getTrueCoords defined in SVG document. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. <svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"; onload='Init(evt)' > > > > > onmousemove='GetTrueCoords(evt); > > > > > > > > > > ShowTooltip(evt, true)' > > > > > onmouseout='ShowTooltip(evt, false)'> > > > > > > > > > > <g id='ToolTip' opacity='1.0' display='none' > pointer-events='none'> > > > > > > > > > > <rect id='tipbox' x='0' y='5' width='100' height='20' rx='4' > > > > > ry='4' fill='White' stroke='Black'/> > > > > > <text id='tipText' x='5' y='20' font-family='Times New Roman' > > > > > font-size='13'> > > > > > <tspan id='tipTitle' x='5' font-weight='bold' fill='Blue'> > > > > > </tspan> > > > > > </text> > > > > > > > > > > </g> > > > > > > > > > > -------------> here is the code in "WordView" svg document. > > > > > > > > > > 4. In the first JS file "ClientEventHandler.js" i have the > funtions > > > > > Init, GetTrueCoords(evt) ..... so on. > > > > > > > > > > now when a user preform some action like click an element say > circle > > > > > shape of SVG document, this JS script > > > > > > > > > > makes AJAX (XHR) requests n comes with an XML with some data, > which i > > > > > will parse n update the SVG document > > > > > > > > > > dynamically. Since this SVG is embedded in the HTML page, the page > > > > > shows the necessary updated data. > > > > > > > > > > Now my doubt is why to serve HTML page when user starts from the > > > > > browser rather than the SVG document > > > > > > > > > > directly. > > > > > > > > > > for that i need to include the 2 external javascript files in the > SVG > > > > > document so that i directly invoke > > > > > > > > > > the SVG document from the browser. i just tried to do like this > but > > > > > it doesnt work. > > > > > > > > > > <svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"; onload='Init(evt)' > > > > > onmousemove='GetTrueCoords(evt); > > > > > > > > > > ShowTooltip(evt, true)' > > > > > onmouseout='ShowTooltip(evt, false)'> > > > > > > > > > > <script type="text/javascript" language="javascript" > > > > > src="ClientEventHandler.js"> </script> > > > > > <script type="text/javascript" language="javascript" > > > > > src="XMLHttpRequest.js"> </script> > > > > > > > > > > <g id='ToolTip' opacity='1.0' display='none' > pointer-events='none'> > > > > > > > > > > <rect id='tipbox' x='0' y='5' width='100' height='20' rx='4' > > > > > ry='4' fill='White' stroke='Black'/> > > > > > <text id='tipText' x='5' y='20' font-family='Times New Roman' > > > > > font-size='13'> > > > > > <tspan id='tipTitle' x='5' font-weight='bold' fill='Blue'> > > > > > </tspan> > > > > > </text> > > > > > > > > > > </g> > > > > > > > > > > </svg> > > > > > > > > > > but here it says unable to find Init n other functions. > > > > > > > > > > I also want suggestions that which is the good method to either > embed > > > > > SVG in HTML page or directly use SVG > > > > > > > > > > alone for web applications. > > > > > > > > > > Tnks for suggestions n comments, > > > > > > > > > > Byee, > > > > > Pramod. > > > > > > ----- > > > To unsubscribe send a message to: > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]<svg-developers-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com> > > > -or- > > > visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit my > > > membership" > > > ---- > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > ----- > > To unsubscribe send a message to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]<svg-developers-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com>-or- > > visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit my > > membership" ---- > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > -- > Ronan Oger > Director > RO IT Systems GmbH > ...Building Web2.0 with SVG since 2001 > > http://www.roitsystems.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Everything you need is one click away. Make Yahoo! your home page now. http://us.click.yahoo.com/AHchtC/4FxNAA/yQLSAA/1U_rlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> ----- To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit my membership" ---- Yahoo! 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