Jim Leonard wrote:
>Pedro Quaresma wrote:
>
> >Yes, but that's not the point; as I explained earlier, the PC versions
> >are signficantly different, rare, or both. Hence the need to get them.
>
> Usually the AppleII versions of most games are more rare
>In what world do you live in? :-)
In a world with more valuable apple games than PC games :)
> The Apple II had a HUGE pirate
>movement all throughout its life.
Of course; Apple games are very easy to crack.
> That's why practically every single
>Apple II game is on Asimov. The PC didn't have a significant pirate
>following until about 1986, but games date back to 1982 (1981 if you
>listen to some pundits). That's why hardly any early PC games are on
>various Abandonware sites.
>Unless, of course, you're talking about the packaged/boxed software, in
>which case I'd agree with you past 1985, and disagree with you pre-1985.
I was talking about the package as a whole, once again. Not the software
itself. And yes, I still think it's still more rare for the pre-1985 Apple
than the PC. Akalabeth RG, Akalabeth CPC, Ultima CPC.
Come on, these triunvirate makes the whole difference >:)
> > >Not for stuff that isn't on the 'net! If someone doesn't make a copy
of
> > >the software, then how do you expect to download it?
> >
> > Only extremely exceptional games aren't downloadable from the net. On
> those
> > games, of course, having a floppy is extremely important
>
> >Bingo.
>
> But they're the exceptions. There aren't that many.
>You must not be familiar with the early PC gaming industry. There are
>easliy a thousand PC games/ports made before 1990 that aren't freely
>downloadble on the 'net. Why do you think my cause is so dedicated?
>;-)
A thousand? Well, if not on the net, they must be available somewhere :)
I've yet only to find a certain PC RPG I've never seen anywhere, not even
on the net: "Alternate Reality: The Dungeon"
> >Who do you think seeded the original Abandonware community anyway? ;-)
>
> Lee? Hugh? Karl? Chris?... Hmmmm... no idea >:)
>No, not them! ME!
Who? >:]
> I was one of the first 10 Abandonware websites, and
>I built up the original AB ring with a search engine, mailing list,
>etc. I was also, not by coincidence, the first AB site taken down by
>the IDSA. My site was up in 1997.
Did you crack the games? Or just had them on the web?
> > >But of
> > >course that won't happen, since Origin is finally dead, gone, and
> > >buried. :-(
> >
> > Not Origin, but Origin-as-we-know-it. :(
>
> >No, really, it really is dead. They laid everyone else off, and they
> >stopped using the Origin name/logo on packaging late last year. But
> >take heart; Garriot is re-hiring a lot of people for his new company.
>
> Yes, and they've taken a "great" project: they're supporting this
> super-crappy online asian RPG, for it to make a "triumphal" entrance on
the
> US market. Yeah, right.
>Oh, I don't agree with their RPG stuff... but who knows, maybe 3 years
>down the road when they have some seed money they can come up with
>Ultima X.
They can't, "Ultima" is now an EA trademark...
> That's not quite the truth. Baldur's Gate 2 sells, doesn't it? And it's
2D.
>True, but it took some 3D products first to qualify this.
What do you mean? That it took several 3d "mistakes" for people to see that
2d was OK too?
>In a mini-return to that subject, can you tell me why you didn't like
>Baulder's Gate 2? Or more specifically, what you wish it had and what
>you wish it hadn't? (Because I just started playing and after 3 hours
>of gameplay I'm not disliking it)
I wasn't disliking it either after 3 hours :) I will mail you privately and
let you know why I think BG2 is so average and therefore doesn't deserve
all the hype.
> "Quakers" love 3d, so some "geniuses" in game companies start directing
> their efforts to please them too. _That_ was their mistake... BG1, BG2,
> Icewind Dale, Planescape Torment, Diablo 2, Fallout 1&2, they all sold
> pretty decently.
>True, but it took some 3D products first to qualify this. ;-)
Speaking of an easy 3d comparison, have you seen M&M6 (2d simulating 3d)
and M&M7 (3d)? Now which one has the better graphics? I'd say M&M6, but
most will probably answer M&M7 ("it's 3d!!!!" ;))
> Speaking of BG2, can you give me your email, so I can send you my first
> "direct comparison"?
>Sure: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Maybe my questions above would be best answered in email.
I'll start preparing a mail right after I finish this one
> > Because they were first, they ran into a ton of issues and
> >problems. They were penalized, and the product lines abruptly ended.
> >It's a shame to be penalized for being first to market with something.
>
> As I said above, the problem is that they didn't stick to their fans, but
> to other's games fans.
>That's very astute (perceptive) -- and also, unfortunately, a fact of
>life in an industry where 1% of the market buying your game is
>considered a huge success :-( The market is way too saturated :-(
Still room for some great companies/developers to create fantastic original
games. Look at Troika Games's "Arcanum". Magic vs Technology in this
isometric RPG, what a fantastic idea! Kudos for Tim Cain, one of the best
RPG developers ever, for having the "guts" to do it.
> Also, why in the world are great game creators selling their companies to
> other bigger ones? Don't tell me RG was so poor he just _had_ to sell to
> EA, or that Williams had to sell Sierra to AT&T, or van Caneghem NWC to
3DO
> (I wonder how he's surviving so well in there, btw)
>RG/EA: Many at the company didn't like it, but they needed the
>development capital to make bigger and better games. It was the
>beginning of their downfall (exactly why I'm still trying to figure
>out), but it was also the beginning of their most technologically
>advanced projects (Wing Commander 3, Strike Commander, Ultima 7, etc.)
>They wrote their own 3D code (Strike Commander had so much advanced 3D
>code that then-modern machines couldn't run it quickly), wrote their own
>memory extenders (which is why it's so damn hard to run U7 on a modern
>box), etc. and nobody else was doing that at the time. They were trying
>to innovate, and they succeeded in some areas.
EA had nothing to do with U7. The Voodoo Memory System was a brainchild of
Origin only. EA's "touch" started with U8 (maybe that's why the game is so
crappy?)
>Williams: He had said many times before how sad it was that the market
>had become so saturated, and that you had to claw your way to a 0.5%
>market share. He didn't sell Sierra because they needed money; he just
>didn't want to be a part of it any more. I don't blame him, given the
>change of the industry in the first half of the 1990s. He had gone from
>an industry where everyone knew each other and -- I'm not making this up
>-- went on weekend camping trips and picnics, to an industry where you
>had to fight tooth and nail to break even. He saw all that and he also
>saw his great but ill-timed Sierra Network fade away. I don't blame him
>for selling.
Yes, but about the fans' life that he "ruined"? What about all those people
that met each other on Shadow of Yserbius? What about all the Quest series
fans? And Larry?
>3D0: No idea. :-)
Me neither. But JvC is also a genius (par with RG), and he still hasn't let
his fans down (although M&M8 was a bit dissapointing). I think he must have
a hell of a great working team (one thing RG never had after U6... even the
U7 team wasn't as good).
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Pedro R. Quaresma
[EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"All your base are belong to us"
http://www.salvador-caetano.pt
http://www.globalshop.pt
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