Why did we give up so easily? I did not say that scripting support is somehow a 
non-goal. In fact, it is exactly the opposite.

I do not believe that somehow API that is useful for scripts is mutually 
exclusive with API that is useful for apps.

- Tony

> On Nov 30, 2017, at 9:26 AM, Jacob Williams <ponybo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Since this isn’t going to be coming to Foundation any time…ever, I’d take a 
> look at the SwiftShell framework. It makes running command line utilities 
> from swift pretty easy. Chaining outputs from previous commands into 
> subsequent commands is also rather simple. It’s based on Process but gives a 
> lot of sugar that may be useful for you. I’ve been using it in one of my 
> projects on an Ubuntu machine and it is easy to work with.
> 
> https://github.com/kareman/SwiftShell <https://github.com/kareman/SwiftShell> 
> 
>> On Nov 30, 2017, at 1:43 AM, Nick Keets via swift-corelibs-dev 
>> <swift-corelibs-dev@swift.org <mailto:swift-corelibs-dev@swift.org>> wrote:
>> 
>> In that case I think the discussion is kind of moot, scripts are 
>> fundamentally different than apps, being terse is important and almost 
>> always you want to block.
>> 
>> If better scripting support is a non-goal for Foundation then `Process` is 
>> mostly fine as it is. My only wish would be to somehow make it easier to 
>> read and write `Data` to stdin/stdout/stderr.
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 11:30 PM, Tony Parker <anthony.par...@apple.com 
>> <mailto:anthony.par...@apple.com>> wrote:
>> Of course, Foundation API has no way of distinguishing if the caller is 
>> considered a script or not.
>> 
>> If the API is a bad idea for other kinds of apps then we simply wouldn’t add 
>> it. So, I think this proposed convenience API needs to consider all of the 
>> varied clients of Foundation.
>> 
>> - Tony
>> 
>> 
>>> On Nov 28, 2017, at 12:24 PM, Brent Royal-Gordon <br...@architechies.com 
>>> <mailto:br...@architechies.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Nov 28, 2017, at 8:00 AM, Tony Parker <anthony.par...@apple.com 
>>>> <mailto:anthony.par...@apple.com>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Why does it imply a run loop rather than one of many multithreading 
>>>> possibilities (dispatch queue, starting one more thread, etc)? And even if 
>>>> it did use run loops, why is that a problem?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The problem is simply that we're discussing using this feature in Swift 
>>> *scripts*. Swift scripts don't typically invoke `RunLoop.run()` or 
>>> `dispatch_main()`, and without changing the way they generate main() 
>>> functions to intrinsically do so (and then schedule main.swift's body on 
>>> the main runloop/queue), I don't see a good way for it to do so. So an 
>>> async API would be inconvenient to use from a Swift script.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Brent Royal-Gordon
>>> Architechies
>>> 
>> 
>> 
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> 

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