If you're serious about your proposal, you need to come up with a realistic 
plan for phasing out the current struct semantics for everyone, in every use 
case that they have.

Félix

> Le 26 déc. 2015 à 11:14:44, Lino Rosa via swift-evolution 
> <[email protected]> a écrit :
> 
> 
> > "1) Its not true. Its just about the reassignment. But for value-types in 
> > automatic the process of copy-change and assign."
> 
> I understand that, but semantically it sure looks like it's true. It's an 
> implementation detail, all about the copy-on-write optimization right? Why 
> should the developer have to know about that?
> 
> > "2) because only value types need this keyword"
> > "3) what's the problem here?"
> 
> Consistency. Makes the language harder to explain. To me the `mutating` 
> keyword should either be used in classes as well or not used at all. Both 
> would simplify things. But this is running off-topic from the original post 
> though.
> 
> > "Can you elaborate this? Does not appear a real world problem."
> 
> Not a specific example, but every line like `something.a = "anotherValue"` 
> might or might not be relying on value semantics. After refactoring, the 
> developer would have no choice but to read every line with `something` and 
> judge whether value semantics was assumed or it was irrelevant. Really error 
> prone. Any mistake would result in unintended reference sharing, race 
> conditions etc. The actual bug might surface far from the originating issue.
> 
> > "hu?  Just check if the type is a struct or a enum! So will be a value 
> > type. Whats the problem here?"
> 
> Of course, but you'd have to pause reading and jump to the definition each 
> time. And keep two mental models when structures and classes are used 
> together.
> 
> > "No, the whole point of structs are not to be used in small and simple 
> > cases, not on Swift, in swift um Swift are first class citizen and can be 
> > use for complex data structure, like Array and Strings. You can make a 
> > private shared buffer behind the scenes."
> 
> It does certainly seem to be this way in practice. It was the impression I 
> got from Swift's official docs: "The structure’s primary purpose is to 
> encapsulate a few relatively simple data values.". But now I realize it talks 
> about other possible use cases.
> 
> > "Try this one: https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2015-408/ 
> > <https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2015-408/> ( Protocol-Oriented 
> > Programming in Swift )"
> 
> I enjoyed this one, but it's about inheritance vs. protocols. He changes 
> classes to structures because he thinks it fits the model but he could have 
> kept classes and still proved his point that protocols are more powerful and 
> flexible. 
> 
> I called my attention though, at around 25:20m he shows 
> `diagram.elements.append(diagram)` and says: "Now, it took me a second to 
> realize why Drawing wasn't going into an infinite recursion at this point". 
> That's kind of my point, these little surprises sprinkled around the code.
> 
> Brent Royal-Gordon:
> 
> > "In a regular method, `self` is a regular (constant) parameter, but in a 
> > `mutating` method, `self` is `inout` so that it can be mutated and those 
> > mutations will reach the caller's copy of the instance. There's no need for 
> > an `inout` `self` on reference types, because the mutations are performed 
> > on the shared instance which both the caller and callee have a reference 
> > to, so `mutating` only really makes sense for value types."
> 
> But the `mutating` keyword isn't really needed to make `self` work this way 
> for structures. It's actually not strictly needed at all. Another thing the 
> `mutating` keyword "allows" is for the method to be able to reassign 
> properties. I was advocating that `mutating` had only that meaning in order 
> to be more consistent. Then it would be equally useful for classes to make 
> APIs more clear with respect to mutation.
> 
> 
> On Fri, Dec 25, 2015 at 7:16 PM Brent Royal-Gordon <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> > However I could probably still agree with you if mutating was also used in 
> > classes. What's the point of having it only on structures?
> 
> In a regular method, `self` is a regular (constant) parameter, but in a 
> `mutating` method, `self` is `inout` so that it can be mutated and those 
> mutations will reach the caller's copy of the instance. There's no need for 
> an `inout` `self` on reference types, because the mutations are performed on 
> the shared instance which both the caller and callee have a reference to, so 
> `mutating` only really makes sense for value types.
> 
> --
> Brent Royal-Gordon
> Architechies
> 
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