On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 9:54 AM, Charlie Monroe <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On Jun 13, 2016, at 4:46 PM, Xiaodi Wu <[email protected]> wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 9:28 AM, Sean Heber <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I’m just (probably obtusely) suggesting that there are different levels >> and styles of expression and that the existence of one does not render >> other styles invalid. >> >> In relation to the “where” debate, the fact that you can express >> everything with “guard” or “if” as you can with “where” is not, in my mind, >> a strong argument against “where” because it ignores other more intangible >> aspects that are going to be a lot harder to quantify since they depend on >> the context of the problem, the surrounding code, the mindset of the >> writer, and the assumed mindset of the reader. >> >> I don’t dispute that we *could* live without “where” - that is not the >> point. We could also live without classes or generics or any of a variety >> of other features - but why should we when we don’t have to? >> > > I'm not sure where this comes in. I was clarifying what I mean when I call > a language construct 'expressive.' As I understand the term, `where` is not > expressive, whereas classes and generics are expressive. > > > Perhaps this is due to English not being my first language, but I go by > the dictionary definition of expressive: > > expressive (adjective) - effectively conveying thought or feeling. > > And I believe that for-in-where is expressing the condition more > effectively (and efficiently) than adding if/guard-continue into the actual > code block. > That's fine for English, but I just mean that in a language design context I've always understood the word to encompass the *breadth* of thoughts that can be expressed. In that sense, `where` might express one thing economically, but it cannot express very many things at all, no matter how much text you write in a `where` clause. > >> l8r >> Sean >> >> >> > On Jun 13, 2016, at 9:19 AM, Xiaodi Wu <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > How do you mean? I don't follow. >> > On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 09:11 Sean Heber <[email protected]> wrote: >> > > On Jun 13, 2016, at 9:05 AM, Xiaodi Wu via swift-evolution < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> > > >> > > On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 8:58 AM, Charlie Monroe < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> > > if-continue. But I gladly took upon for-in-where as soon as I found >> out about it since it's more expressive and simply is less typing. >> > > >> > > I don't think we use the term 'expressive' in the same way. I >> understand it to mean that permitting the expression of more things. But of >> course, `where` does only a subset of `guard...continue` or >> `if...continue`; thus, less expressive. >> > >> > The fact that you could simply use the words “I am happy” to express >> the concept of being happy does not mean that writing a complex poem that >> also conveys happiness should therefore be prohibited. >> > >> > l8r >> > Sean >> > >> >> > >
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