I agree, but is this why \ was chosen? Brandon
Sent from my iPad > On Jun 21, 2016, at 7:58 PM, Sean Heber <s...@fifthace.com> wrote: > > The situation is very different on an iPad. I don't think this argument is a > good enough reason either. It will differ based on locale, accessibility > technology, device, personal key shortcuts, etc. > > l8r > Sean > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jun 21, 2016, at 6:52 PM, Brandon Knope via swift-evolution >> <swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote: >> >> You're going to be holding shift for the parens anyways so it might be >> easier to type instead of not pressing and then pressing shift >> >> Brandon >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On Jun 21, 2016, at 7:47 PM, Andrey Fidrya <a...@zabiyaka.com> wrote: >>> >>> I think that introducing another escape character is not a good idea. >>> \() is consistent with \r \n etc. >>> >>> And I'm not sure if $ is easier to type. '\' is a single keypress and is >>> located >>> near Backspace & Enter. >>> >>> $ is SHIFT+4 and is harder to type without looking at the keyboard. >>> >>> Andrey >>> >>> >>>> On 22 Jun 2016, at 02:25, Brandon Knope via swift-evolution >>>> <swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> How can it be unpersuasive? I can *show* you that keys that are easier to >>>> type/reach exist for a large majority of user’s. >>>> >>>> I am not saying it is a good idea or not to replace \, but to pretend that >>>> there isn’t an inconvenience there is unfair when every other part of the >>>> language is put under a magnifying glass for the sake of grammar, newbie >>>> friendliness, or this or that, etc... >>>> >>>> This is measurable…it just depends on whether it bothers people or not >>>> enough. Most other things are based on opinion, but this *can* be based on >>>> numbers and usability. >>>> This is something used by everyone. The usability cost is there and it is >>>> real. Just because “well it is easy for me to type” does not mean that it >>>> is ideal. It also doesn’t mean that the current choice is the wrong choice >>>> either. But it still is important to discuss while we can. >>>> >>>> And yes a keyboard IS only so big, but the range to that bigness can be >>>> pretty… big. >>>> >>>> Also, $ is not the only option. There are still far easier keys to type >>>> than \. >>>> >>>> Brandon >>>> >>>>> On Jun 21, 2016, at 7:15 PM, Xiaodi Wu <xiaodi...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 6:08 PM, Brandon Knope via swift-evolution >>>>>> <swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote: >>>>>> Actually… we can go pretty scientific on this sort of thing and heat map >>>>>> keyboard usage to get a better picture of how “usable” this is. >>>>>> >>>>>> I pasted a file that contains seven \’s in it and heat mapped it at >>>>>> https://www.patrick-wied.at/projects/heatmap-keyboard/ >>>>>> >>>>>> Even *with* several \’s throughout my source file the majority of my key >>>>>> presses take place much closer to the $ key than the \ key. >>>>>> >>>>>> I think we can all argue about what is clearer or not, but I think for >>>>>> the majority of us, the \ key is quite inconvenient compared to the keys >>>>>> around where we type the most. >>>>>> >>>>>> I also ran several of iOS 10’s sample code through the heat map and >>>>>> continue to get pretty similar results: the \ is much further from the >>>>>> hottest part of the keyboard than the ones closer to where your hand >>>>>> usually rests. >>>>>> >>>>>> Maybe this is flawed, but I think it is hard to argue that the \ is easy >>>>>> to type when there are far more usable alternatives. >>>>> >>>>> I'm rather unpersuaded by this line of argument. The keyboard is only so >>>>> big; it's a stretch to say that any key is less than absolutely usable. >>>>> Moreover, \ is next the delete key, which I presume you use frequently >>>>> and find no difficulty in reaching. >>>>> >>>>> You know what *is* unusable though? Try finding the $ key on an >>>>> international keyboard. >>>>> >>>>>> Brandon >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jun 21, 2016, at 6:10 PM, Daniel Resnick via swift-evolution >>>>>>> <swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I also disagree for the same reasons that Gwynne and Brent mentioned: I >>>>>>> find '\(...)' easy to read, fine to type, and consistent with other >>>>>>> string escaping syntax. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 3:55 PM, Brent Royal-Gordon via >>>>>>>> swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote: >>>>>>>> > I find that typing \(var) is very disruptive to my typing flow. The >>>>>>>> > more I code in Swift, the more I like it, but every time I'm coding >>>>>>>> > and then have to hiccup while typing \ then ( causes me to be >>>>>>>> > annoyed. I know, it's minor, but it isn't a key combination that >>>>>>>> > flows quickly. >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > I would much rather have $() or perhaps ${} (like Groovy lang) or >>>>>>>> > perhaps @() to go along with other uses of @ throughout the language. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Even though I'm used to Perl's and Ruby's interpolation syntaxes, I >>>>>>>> immediately liked `\(…)`. It's parsimonious: Rather than taking a >>>>>>>> third character (besides \ and ") to mean something special in a >>>>>>>> string literal, it reuses one of the existing ones. There's no need to >>>>>>>> escape a character you wouldn't otherwise have to touch, or to think >>>>>>>> of another character as "magical" in a string. It fits nicely with the >>>>>>>> rest of the syntax, with `\` indicating a special construct and then >>>>>>>> `()` delimiting an expression, just as they do elsewhere in the >>>>>>>> language. It's an elegant solution to a problem traditionally solved >>>>>>>> inelegantly. It's very Swifty in that way. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> > A shifted key, like $ or @, followed by another shifted key like (, >>>>>>>> > allows for a much faster flow and they are much closer to the home >>>>>>>> > keys than \ which is nearly as far from home keys as possible (and >>>>>>>> > awkward). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I don't have any trouble typing it personally. If you find yourself >>>>>>>> accidentally typing `\9` or `|(`, we could probably offer an error for >>>>>>>> the former or warning for the latter with a fix-it. But if you're >>>>>>>> complaining that it takes a tiny fraction of a second longer to type >>>>>>>> than `$(` would, then honestly, I just can't bring myself to care. >>>>>>>> Swift optimizes for code reading. If we wanted to optimize for code >>>>>>>> typing instead, we'd have a very different style. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Brent Royal-Gordon >>>>>>>> Architechies >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> swift-evolution mailing list >>>>>>>> swift-evolution@swift.org >>>>>>>> https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> swift-evolution mailing list >>>>>>> swift-evolution@swift.org >>>>>>> https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> swift-evolution mailing list >>>>>> swift-evolution@swift.org >>>>>> https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> swift-evolution mailing list >>>> swift-evolution@swift.org >>>> https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> swift-evolution mailing list >> swift-evolution@swift.org >> https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution
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