> On 17 Jan 2017, at 11:28, Alex Blewitt <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>> On 17 Jan 2017, at 11:10, Jeremy Pereira via swift-evolution
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On 17 Jan 2017, at 02:38, thislooksfun via swift-evolution
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> I really hate to bring Java up, but I really do think it got at least one
>>> thing right with its error system, namely that one subset of error (namely
>>> `RuntimeException`), wouldn't be enforced by the compiler, but could
>>> optionally be caught.
>>
>> I don’t entirely agree for two reasons:
>>
>> 1. If a runtime error is thrown and caught, there is no way to guarantee the
>> logical consistency of the state of the running process because who knows
>> which stack frames were unwound without cleaning up properly. There is no
>> way to safely catch a run time exception and recover.
>
> From a Java perspective, clearly that's not true.
It absolutely is true.
int someMethod()
{
aquireSomeLock();
doSomethingThatIsNotDeclaredToThrowAnException();
releaseSomeLock();
}
>
> It may well be true for the current implementation of Swift, and there's
> questions about how to clean up objects with reference counts outstanding
> (since there's no garbage collector). It isn't necessarily the case that it
> isn't possible, but it does require some additional stack unwinding; and the
> implementation of that may be too cumbersome/impractical/undesirable to occur.
Not all resources are reference counts or memory allocations.
>
>> 2. People abuse RuntimeException to simplify their error handling code: “if
>> I throw a RuntimeException I don’t need a zillion catch clauses or throws
>> declarations”. Furthermore, if a library uses RuntimeExceptions where it
>> should be using Exceptions there is no way to know if its API has changed
>> except by reading the (hopefully up to date) documentation.
>>
>> Problem 2 makes me particularly bitter because JEE programmers seem to have
>> learned that allowing code to throw null pointer exceptions has no real
>> consequences for them so they become very cavalier about doing their null
>> checks. The user sees an 500 error page, the sys admin gets a 200 line stack
>> trace in the log, but the system carries on. If you are lucky enough to have
>> the source code to diagnose the problem, it usually turns out that the
>> exception was thrown on a line with eight chained method calls. When you do
>> track the problem down, it turns out you forgot a line in the properties
>> file or something similar but the programmer couldn’t be bothered to help
>> you out because it was easier just to let the null pointer exception happen.
>
> That's a pretty poor example, and in any case, the individual cause would
> allow the system to continue on processing subsequent requests, which is
> generally what's wanted. When you're working on large systems and with large
> data sets, there are generally always problematic items like this which have
> to be diagnosed sufficiently in order to be retried, or even handled
> manually. It has very little to do with the language and more to do with the
> quality of data which isn't something you always have control over.
No it’s not a poor example. I’ve seen it happen with real software in real
production scenarios.
>
>> I like Swift’s error handling because programming errors (like force
>> unwrapping nil) are punished mercilessly by process termination and errors
>> caused by external factors cannot be completely ignored. You have to at
>> least put an empty catch block somewhere.
>
> This is one of the significant problems in Swift at the moment for
> server-side logic. It may make sense to do this from a single-user
> application, but writing a server which is designed to handle hundreds or
> thousands of simultaneous clients can suffer from the fact that one bad
> client request can take out everyone's connection. In the server working
> group and in existing tools like Kitura/Vapor/Perfect etc. it's a non-trivial
> problem to solve, other than using a CGI like model where each request is
> handled by a single worker process that can terminate independently of the
> other requests in flight.
I agree it’s a non trivial problem to resolve. I’m saying that the Java
“solution” of RuntimeExceptions doesn’t resolve it.
>
> Alex
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