> On Jan 26, 2017, at 10:49 AM, Adrian Zubarev > <[email protected]> wrote: > > There are official mobile apps for Discourse: iOS > <https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/discourse-app/id1173672076?ls=1&mt=8> & > Android <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.discourse&hl=en>. > > I wonder how people would argue if we’d had started using a forum from the > beginning and would now discuss a switch to an email list. That would be a > real discussion about regression. > >
The argument would go like this: as someone (imaginary, but true for a lot of folks at Apple) who has been contributing to LLVM for a longtime, I find having to use a totally set of communication tools a huge loss on productivity. I also read most of this forum ;) on my commute with very pool internet and would love to be able to read and compose offline. This last point is not imaginary. > > > -- > Adrian Zubarev > Sent with Airmail > > Am 26. Januar 2017 um 19:26:39, Daniel Duan ([email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>) schrieb: > >> I'm actually convinced that I'd rather use an email client. Having to >> participate in a web app is a regression in my experience. >> >> Daniel Duan >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jan 26, 2017, at 10:15 AM, Adrian Zubarev via swift-evolution >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >>> Awesome :) Hopefully that will finally convince the people what ‘are >>> working on this’ to actually make it ;) >>> >>> I could find some really old threads of mine in just seconds. My mail >>> client cannot do that job that well. >>> >>> Cannot wait 🤤 >>> >>> -- >>> Adrian Zubarev >>> Sent with Airmail >>> >>> Am 26. Januar 2017 um 19:03:13, Nate Cook via swift-evolution >>> ([email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>) schrieb: >>> >>>> >>>>> On Jan 25, 2017, at 3:32 PM, Douglas Gregor via swift-evolution >>>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jan 25, 2017, at 12:05 PM, Ted Kremenek via swift-evolution >>>>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I have no problem with the project moving to forums instead of the >>>>>> Mailman mailing lists we have now — if it is the right set of tradeoffs. >>>>>> >>>>>> My preference is to approach the topic objectively, working from goals >>>>>> and seeing how the mailing lists are aligning with those goals and how >>>>>> an alternative, such as Discourse, might do a better job. >>>>>> >>>>>> The current use of mailing lists has been carry-over of how both LLVM >>>>>> does public discussion (which is all mailing lists) and how the Swift >>>>>> team at Apple has used mailing lists for discussion. That inertia has >>>>>> benefits in that it is a familiar workflow that is “proven” to work — >>>>>> but the doesn’t mean it is the best option going forward. >>>>>> >>>>>> Here are some of the things that matter to me: >>>>>> >>>>>> - Topics are easy to manage and search, with stable URLs for archives. >>>>>> >>>>>> - It is easy to reference other topics with a stable (canonical) URL >>>>>> that allows you to jump into that other topic easily. That’s hard to do >>>>>> if you haven’t already been subscribed to the list. >>>>>> >>>>>> - Works fine with email clients, for those who want to keep that >>>>>> workflow (again this inertia is important). >>>>>> >>>>>> - Code formatting, and other tools that add clarity in communication, >>>>>> are a huge plus. >>>>>> >>>>>> I’d like to understand more the subjective comments on this thread, such >>>>>> as "may intimidate newcomers”. This feels very subjective, and while I >>>>>> am not disagreeing with that statement I don’t fully understand its >>>>>> justification. Signing up for mailing lists is fairly straightforward, >>>>>> and one isn’t obligated to respond to threads. Are forums really any >>>>>> less “intimating”? If so, why is that the case? Is this simply a >>>>>> statement about mailing lists not being in vogue? >>>>>> >>>>>> I do also think the asynchronous nature of the mailing lists is >>>>>> important, as opposed to discussions feeling like a live chat. Live >>>>>> chat, such as the use of Slack the SwiftPM folks have been using, is >>>>>> very useful too, but I don’t want participants on swift-evolution or any >>>>>> of our mailing lists feel obligated to respond in real time — that’s >>>>>> simply not the nature of the communication on the lists. >>>>>> >>>>>> So in short, using mailing lists specifically is not sacred — we can >>>>>> change what we use for our community discussions. I just want an >>>>>> objective evaluation of the needs the mailing lists are meant to serve, >>>>>> and work from there. If moving to something like (say) Discourse would >>>>>> be a negative on a critical piece that is well-served by the mailing >>>>>> lists, that would (in my opinion) a bad direction to take. I’m not >>>>>> saying that is the case, just that this is how I prefer we approach the >>>>>> discussion. >>>>> >>>>> I’ve looked into Discourse a bit, and it does look very promising. One >>>>> *specific* way in which a motivated individual could help would be to >>>>> take a look at Discourse’s import scripts >>>>> <https://github.com/discourse/discourse/tree/master/script/import_scripts> >>>>> and try importing swift-evolution’s mailing archives with them. We >>>>> absolutely do not want to lose history when we switch technologies. Do >>>>> the messages import well? Are threading and topics maintained in a >>>>> reasonable manner? Does Discourse provide effective UI for looking into >>>>> past discussions on some specific topic we’re interested in? >>>>> >>>>> - Doug >>>> >>>> ✋ >>>> >>>> I forged the mighty, turgid rivers of rubyenv, hand-tweaked gem >>>> dependencies, and sed-cleaned mbox files to try this out—you can see the >>>> results of an import (using one or two day old data) at this address: >>>> http://discourse.natecook.com/ <http://discourse.natecook.com/> >>>> >>>> It looks like the threads were handled properly, though they bear some >>>> obvious marks of their mailing list origins. Users can actually claim >>>> their accounts if they do a password reset. However: >>>> - it's hooked up to a trial SendGrid account, which will top out at 100 >>>> emails/day >>>> - I should probably delete this soon so Google doesn't think it's the real >>>> deal >>>> >>>> I might have mentioned this before, but I'm strongly in favor of >>>> forum-based solution over the mailing list (at least for this group), and >>>> Discourse seems to be the best one running right now (and fairly open to >>>> extension and customization). I made a new topic here to demonstrate a >>>> couple features (code blocks and inline images): >>>> http://discourse.natecook.com/t/pitch-add-dark-mode-to-swift/3051 >>>> <http://discourse.natecook.com/t/pitch-add-dark-mode-to-swift/3051> >>>> >>>> Thanks - >>>> Nate >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> swift-evolution mailing list >>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution >>>> <https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> swift-evolution mailing list >>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>> https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution >>> <https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution> >
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