> On 16 Mar 2017, at 20:55, Itai Ferber via swift-evolution 
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> I’m going to reply to this thread as a whole — apologies if there’s someone’s 
> comment that I’ve missed.
> 
> This is something that has come up in internal review, and we’ve certainly 
> given it thought. As Zach has already mentioned, the primary concern with 
> overloading based on return type is ambiguity.
> There are many cases in which Swift’s type system currently does not handle 
> ambiguity in the way that you would expect, and it can be very surprising. 
> For instance,
> 
> func foo() -> Int { return 42 }
> func foo() -> Double { return .pi }
> func consumesInt(_ x : Int) { print(x) }
> 
> let x = foo() // Ambiguous use of foo()
> consumesInt(x) // Even though x is going to be used as an Int
> let y: Int = x // Same here
> let x = foo() as Int works now, but it actually didn’t always — until a 
> somewhat recent version of Swift AFAICT, the only way to resolve the 
> ambiguity was through let x: Int = foo(). This has since been fixed, but it 
> was very confusing to try to figure out the unambiguous way to call it.
> 
> Keep in mind that this isn’t an unreasonable thing to want to do:
> 
> struct Foo {
>     var x: Int
>     init(from decoder: Decoder) throws {
>         let container = try decoder.container(keyedBy: CodingKeys.self)
> 
>         // Want to process an element before it’s assigned.
>         let x = container.decode(forKey: .x) // Ambiguous call
> 
>         // Or whatever.
>         if x < 0 {
>             self.x = x + 100
>         else {
>             self.x = x * 200
>         }
>     }
> }
> You can write let x: Int = container.decode(…) or let x = container.decode(…) 
> as Int, but this isn’t always intuitive.
> 
That’s where I disagree. Let me try to prove my point:

You bring up the example of having to store the decoded value in a variable 
before setting it to a typed property. But its also not unreasonable to want to 
do the same thing when encoding the value, possibly storing it into a different 
type. If we follow that argument, its also not very intuitive to have to do

container.encode(x as Double, forKey: .x).

Wouldn’t that be an argument to have an API like this:

func encode<T>(_ value: Data?, forKey key: Key, as type: T.Type) throws

I would argue that type inference is a core feature in Swift and that we should 
embrace it. I believe that in most cases the return value of encode will be 
stored into a typed property and type inference will do the right thing. In the 
few cases where the type has to be enforced, the patterns you mention above are 
not weird syntax; they are used and useful all over Swift:

let cgFloat: CGFloat = 42
let pi = 3.14159265359 as Float
let person = factory.get<Person>() // potential feature in Generics Manifesto

The way I think about it is that the type argument is already there as a 
generic parameter. Adding an extra argument that needs to be explicitly given 
on every single call feels like unneeded verbosity to me.
> Consider also that the metatype would also be necessary for decode<Value : 
> Codable>(_ type: Value.Type, forKey: Key) -> Value because the return value 
> of that certainly could be ambiguous in many cases.
> 
> Finally, the metatype arg allows you to express the following succinctly: let 
> v: SuperClass = container.decode(SubClass.self, forKey: .v).
> 
> In the general case (decode<Value : Codable>) we would need the metatype to 
> avoid ambiguity. It’s not strictly necessary for primitive types, but helps 
> in the case of ambiguity, and solves the conceptual overhead of "Why do I 
> specify the type sometimes but not others? Why are some of these types 
> special? Should I always provide the type? Why wouldn’t I?"
> 
> Matthew offered func decode<T>(_ key: Key, as type: T.Type = T.self) throws 
> -> T which looks appealing, but:
> 
> Doesn’t help resolve the ambiguity either
> Allows for 3 ways of expressing the same thing (let x: Int = decode(key), let 
> x = decode(key) as Int, and let x = decode(key, as: Int.self))
> The cognitive overhead of figuring out all of the ambiguity goes away when 
> we’re consistent everywhere.
> FWIW, too, I am not convinced that Foundation should add API just because 3rd 
> parties will add it.
> 
Agreed. Foundation should not add API just because 3rd parties do it. But 3rd 
parties should not be dismissed entirely nonetheless. They are a good breeding 
ground for ideas to spawn and shape Swift in interesting ways.
> The ambiguity in the general case cannot be solved by wrappers, and I would 
> prefer to provide one simple, consistent solution; if 3rd parties would like 
> to add wrappers for their own sake, then I certainly encourage that.
> 
> On 16 Mar 2017, at 11:46, Matthew Johnson via swift-evolution wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Mar 16, 2017, at 1:34 PM, Zach Waldowski via swift-evolution 
>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>> 
>> On Thu, Mar 16, 2017, at 02:23 PM, Matthew Johnson via swift-evolution wrote:
>>> I don’t have an example but I don’t see a problem either.  There are two 
>>> options for specifying the return type manually.  We can use the signature 
>>> you used above and use `as` to specify the expected type:
>>> 
>>> let i = decode(.myKey) as Int
>> 
>> The awkwardness of this syntax is exactly what I'm referring to. Would a 
>> beginner know to use "as Int" or ": Int"? Why would they? The "prettiness" 
>> of the simple case doesn't make up for how difficult it is to understand and 
>> fix its failure cases.
>> 
>> Any official Swift or Foundation API shouldn't, or shouldn't need to, make 
>> use of "tricky" syntax.
> 
> I don’t think this is especially tricky.  Nevertheless, we can avoid 
> requiring this syntax by moving the type argument to the end and providing a 
> default.  But I think return type inference is worth supporting.  It has 
> become widely adopted by the community already in this use case.
> 
>> 
>>> If we don’t support this in Foundation we will continue to see 3rd party 
>>> libraries that do this.
>> 
>> The proposal's been out for less than 24 hours, is it really productive to 
>> already be taking our ball and go home over such a minor thing?
> 
> I don’t think that’s what I’m doing at all.  This is a fantastic proposal.  
> I’m still working through it and writing up my more detailed thoughts.
> 
> That said, as with many (most?) first drafts, there is room for improvement.  
> I think it’s worth pointing out the syntax that many of us would like to use 
> for decoding and at least considering including it in the proposal.  If the 
> answer is that it’s trivial for those who want to use subscripts to write the 
> wrappers for return type inference and / or subscripts themselves that’s ok.  
> But it’s a fair topic for discussion and should at least be addressed as an 
> alternative that was rejected for a specific reason.
> 
>> 
>> Zach Waldowski
>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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> 
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