My comments below, prefixed with >>> (and in bold if that comes through)
On 26 April 2010 13:00, David Instone-Brewer <techni...@tyndale.cam.ac.uk>wrote: > Chris, these are great! > > (David, I've copied you in for your creative 'eye' - links to screenshots > are > here<http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_4q-hr4DqduU/S9SnQsGWsoI/AAAAAAAAADs/t2ijJOFqFPc/s1600/tyndale+step-750569.PNG>, > here<http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_4q-hr4DqduU/S9SnQEI12uI/AAAAAAAAADk/Qxp-v2p_QEM/s1600/tyndale+step+with+popup-747928.PNG>, > here<http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_4q-hr4DqduU/S9SnaPNzSBI/AAAAAAAAAD8/npX67PYsUqc/s1600/tyndale_step_description-788925.PNG>, > here<http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_4q-hr4DqduU/S9SnaI4ERiI/AAAAAAAAAD0/XL_u75zTlkE/s1600/tyndale_step_with_popup_description-788049.PNG>, > here<http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_4q-hr4DqduU/S9SpdQ5XfBI/AAAAAAAAAEM/3Rw7bs3AQ6k/s1600/tyndale+step+no+bookmarks-713151.PNG>, > & > here<http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_4q-hr4DqduU/S9Spc_NlF3I/AAAAAAAAAEE/EF3stgSdQ18/s1600/step1_green-711941.PNG>). > > > > * I love the tags along the top of the text panes, which don't take up much > room and dropdown to list the versions > > * I love the footprint logo at the bottom middle. > > * The Tools menu at top right is a great idea. > > * The big friendly buttons down the left are nice. They look a bit > mysterious to start with, but are quickly learned. > *>>> I think we can easily add some "alternative text" to let the user know what the button is in a non obstructive way* > > * The popout of People etc, overlaying most of the text panes works well. > > * The people list - starting with a list at Aaron, Abaddon etc, with "more" > looks good as a quick way to pick the person you want > > * The idea of starting typing and filtering the results is very intuitive. > > * I like the idea of intelligence for searching, with the option of telling > it what to search for. So if someone looks up Aaron, they can decide if they > want the People database or a concordance search. > > * the Bookmarks in the middle look perfect - intuitive, and don't take up > much room. > > * Using the space between the panes for "Timeline", "People" etc is a great > idea. The "Bookmarks" could be simply one of them. - ie click on one, and it > turns into a list of the People, Maps, Bookmarks etc which are available. > > * I like the idea of Green as a colour scheme - it fits nicely with the > logo and looks friendly. > > * I agree we need a config page but it can be separate > > * I agree we can use Browser back buttons > > * I too have misgivings about menus at the top. Personally I like them, esp > for providing keyboard shortcuts, but they make applications look dated. If > we have it, perhaps it could be an option. > > *Some minor suggestions (most of them are further ideas which you may > already have in mind) > > ** The bridge would look more intuitive if it touched both sides and > looked like one of those bridges which lift up to let boats under (ie the > connection between the two sides is broken)* > * > *>>> Yes, I couldn't find a proper bridge like that. I think that a chain might be better (link / unlink). One of the problems is that the picture needs to be so big since the two panes are relatively speaking quite far from each other...* > * We need some indication of what version we are looking at. - ie when you > click on the dropdown for "English" versions and pick ESV, then pick KJV on > the other pane, we need to see somewhere that that these are what we have > selected. > *>>> Yep, so perhaps something like Matthew 8:2-13 [ESV] in the title?* > > * I'd prefer tabs on the bottom boxes instead of an options button. This > would indicates that all those tabs remain 'live' and available, and > unclicking the one which is clicked could minimise the box. > *>>> I'm not sure unclicking a tab is very intuitive? or are you thinking of having a tab called "No info"* * * > * perhaps we could indicate "manual" or "personal" bookmarks (ie ones > which the user especially wants to remember) by highlighting them or making > them a different colour. Or perhaps "personal bookmarks" could be a separate > list. > *>>> Yes, agreed. So part of the idea on one of the buttons (in a later screenshot) was to have a bookmarks option so that people could get to them very quickly when they come back.* ** > > * It would be nice to have to option of opening a box at the bottom of both > text panes, even if they are linked, so someone could see (say) both > crossRefs and personal notes at the same time. > *>>> Yup. Good idea.* > > * I think we could reduce the size of the search options by simply having a > dropdown from the binoculars. Most of the time, there won't be any need to > specify the kind of search, because a Reference, or Strongs# is unambiguous, > and we can set the default to a concordance search for most other things. If > they have the sidebar open at People or Places we can change the default to > that. So most of the time people won't have to choose the search database. > *>>> Yes, although I don't understand the comment about when the side bar > is open. The idea is to make the side bar a temporary helper to the > application, which "disables" most of the application behind while open.* > > * Do we need a search box inside the side popouts? The main searchbox could > be used. Perhaps the sidebar and popout could start higher up, so that the > main searchbox could be incorporated into the popout. > *>>> I think we do. I think it would confuse people if we only have 1: one of the search boxes is to carry out a one-off search, the other one in the popout is to filter search results according to what module is selected on the toolbar. * > > * Could we use the bookmark space for our hover-over information? I'd > really like to avoid the usual problem of overlaying the very text you are > trying to read. > *>>> Good idea (although it's kind of narrow...). I was going to suggest using the notes field at the bottom, but that wouldn't work because of my comments down below. Another option is to use a overlay on the top header part (covering the search boxes)* > * One of the trickiest things is typing a reference. Could we give the user > some help? Perhaps, when they start typing in the search box, we could have > an initial dropdown of Bible books (ie type "G" and get "Genesis 1... / > Galatians 1..." at the top, then a horizontal line and other options such as > "Gad / Gadara / Gideon... etc). This will esp help those who don't know > the Bible books well, or who type "Jud" for Judges and end up in Jude. > *>>> All very feasible* > * Could we add some kind of chapter selection? Perhaps, when "Genesis 1..." > is selected the dropdown could change to "Genesis 1 / Genesis 2 / Genesis 3 > / Genesis 3 / ..." > *>>> I think you mean "Genesis " would come up with Genesis 1, Genesis 2, etc. Genesis 1 would come up with Genesis 11, Genesis 12, etc. I think also the Bible function on the left (maybe we only need one) could server that purpose, as a drill down. So your side popup would appear, you'd click Genesis, then get a list of all the chapters, then click a chapter...* > > * AND / OR we could put a Bible icon by the side of the Search box with a > drill-down Bible book & chapter selection. > > * When we implement Browser functions (like extending the page downward, or > using child windows, we have to remember that not all Browsers are equal, > esp on a phone or an iPad. We can't rely on extra space and extra windows > being available. > *Agreed, a comment from my flat mate however was that if we're squeezing the Bible into these two panes, and they are not linked (ie. different versions/passage/content) we may need to expand them downwards like a proper webpage for fear of not displaying enough of the passage. I'd rather avoid inline scroll bars...* > > * I like the big popout area from side bar, but perhaps it should cover > only the left-hand text pane (and it could cover more of it) - so that the > user can arrange to have the passage they are looking up to still be visible > on the right-hand pane. Eg someone may be looking up "Jehoshaphat" and > they'd want to see the name while searching for it. > - this would also help with smaller devices, on which we can display > either one text pane or the other, but not a wide area spanning both. > *>>> Good idea* > * That makes me think it would be nice to be able to swap the right & left > text panes. Can the "bridge" icon serve double purpose somehow? > *>>> Maybe dragging and dropping the pane onto the other side?* > > * What about putting the left-hand buttons on the right-hand side? I'm > thinking about how this will be approached. Most users start at the left and > the big buttons make them think that this is what they want to choose first, > whereas we want the Bible text to be the center and the other things to be > spokes or offshoots. So if the big buttons are on the right, their eyes will > be drawn first to the main searchbox, which is where we want them to start. > And if there is a Bible icon to the left of the search, this should lead > them to drill down to a Bible chapter. Also, if the popout is on the right, > it is less likely to cover the very text they have selected. > *>>> Possibly. I'll try that and post a screenshot.* > > * If the popout is covering the complete right-hand text pane, we should > make sure that IF the two panes are linked, we temporarily unlink them so > that a user can scroll up and down through the complete text in just the > left-hand pane which they can still see, while the popout obscures the > right-hand side. > > * The Bible icon in the big buttons should perhaps lead to commentaries > rather than Bible books - ie keep the theme that these buttons are all > adjuncts to the text. > *>>> Yup, I was thinking that as well... Maybe a little Bible icon next to the search, which would just populate the auto-suggest search box at the top.* > > > > *This is really taking shape! > > *David IB > > > At 21:57 25/04/2010, Chris Burrell wrote: > > Some mock ups from me are now on the Tyndale Programming blogs: > http://tyndalestep-prog.blogspot.com/<http://tyndalestep-prog.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2010-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&updated-max=2011-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&max-results=50> > > Comments are welcome, whether good or bad!!! I think whatever happens, the > icons would need to be harmonized (colour an style) and thought through a > bit. And obviously the colour scheme would need to be chosen carefully (do > we also want to make colour blind people have easy access, etc.?) > > > The first two screenshots go together: > http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_4q-hr4DqduU/S9SnQsGWsoI/AAAAAAAAADs/t2ijJOFqFPc/s1600/tyndale+step-750569.PNG > http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_4q-hr4DqduU/S9SnQEI12uI/AAAAAAAAADk/Qxp-v2p_QEM/s1600/tyndale+step+with+popup-747928.PNG > > where the second one is when the user has clicked a button on the left hand > side. > > And then there's the explanations of some of the layouts if need be: > http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_4q-hr4DqduU/S9SnaPNzSBI/AAAAAAAAAD8/npX67PYsUqc/s1600/tyndale_step_description-788925.PNG > http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_4q-hr4DqduU/S9SnaI4ERiI/AAAAAAAAAD0/XL_u75zTlkE/s1600/tyndale_step_with_popup_description-788049.PNG > > Finally, there's a couple of extra screenshots: > > The first showing an alternative of the bit in the middle of the book: > http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_4q-hr4DqduU/S9SpdQ5XfBI/AAAAAAAAAEM/3Rw7bs3AQ6k/s1600/tyndale+step+no+bookmarks-713151.PNGwhere > it would list the content we have about a particular passage > > and then one that looks particularly green (the green from one of the logos > that was on the blogs a few weeks ago: > http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_4q-hr4DqduU/S9Spc_NlF3I/AAAAAAAAAEE/EF3stgSdQ18/s1600/step1_green-711941.PNG) > > A few other remarks: > 1st: we're going to run this thing in a browser (whether online or > offline), so we can make use of the browser buttons (back and forth), most > naturally to capture content change, similar to the bookmarks, going back > and forth through the passages we've visited. (that is stateless, i.e. if we > came back tomorrow that history would be forgotten about). > > 2ndly, it's a browser, so we can expand the page downwards (by inserting > content at the top), or at the bottom. We can also use internal links to go > between one screen and another. > > 3rdly: we could include some sort of menus at the top to make it feel more > desktop-like. Not sure what I think about that. > > 4th: we do need a place of general configuration and user preferences > (things like proxy settings, installing more sword modules/bibles, etc.). > Generally most of that can be done on a separate page, but we need a way of > accessing it, even if it's just one button at the top right, or something > like that. > > I think that's it from me for now... > > Please do let me know what you all think!? > Chris > > > > > > At 22:38 22/04/2010, Chris Burrell wrote: > > Just thought I'd share a few sites that have cropped up recently from > various people in the listings and outside. If we could pull ideas off those > interfaces, I think we could end up with something really good. > > 1- http://my.offlinebible.com/index.php > 2- http://code.google.com/p/xulsword/ > 3- http://www.bibleglo.com/ > > Chris > > > I like lots of things in XulSword. > What I liked about OffLineBible: > * Bookmarks - click on it, and it displays the ref it is marking. > * different formats (no Strongs; inline Strongs, interlinear Strongs, > columns > * the line along the top where you can pick a chapter (a bit fiddly to use, > but an interesting idea) > BibleGlo > * all the bling. OK, it isn't necessary, but it looks cool - well, > impressive. > * the add campaign (now that advertising can be free, who says it doesn't > pay?) > > OK, Here are some positive ideas: > > I like the idea of two panes of text, as in the prototype, and in XulSword, > > with a wide tab area for navigation on the left as in XulSword, > * the XulSword tabs are in two columns with a narrow left-hand column of > OT/NT, > and a wider right-hand column which lists of books for OT or NT > but I think we can develop that further: > Instead of having just OT and NT in the narrow left-most tab, we can > have other things, > which bring up more things in the wider right-hand tab: > - OldT - listing OT books > - NewT - listing NT books > - Geog - listing placenames > - Hist - listing periods > - Lit - listing significant extra-biblical books > - Lang - listing languages > - Who - listing people > - Find - a search box listing results > > With some of these, we will have to display a cut-down list, perhaps with > [+] at the side to open up the item into more detail, eg for people: > [+] Aaron > [+] Baalam > [+] Caanan > - giving just 26 entries displayed. > For Languages I'd suggest an interface like 2LetterLookup.com > > The equal sized panes of text could be like in XulSword, ie: > > * each pane can show a different chapter of the Bible > or the same chap in a different version, or they can be > linked to show more of the chapter, flowing from one to the other. > * a raisable bridge icon (like London Tower Bridge?) can join or separate > them > > * both panes have an identical set of tabs across the top > * these tabs need to be in two layers, classifying them into > - English (ie PD versions) > - European, (ie other language groups) > - African > - Eastern (etc as needed) > - Online (ie IFrames to NIV and other commercial version websites) > - Ancient (ie Greek, Hebrew, ancient versions) > * at the bottom of each pane, there's a box which minimises when not in use > * below this box is another set of tabs determining what these boxes show > (and when the box is minimised, they remain as a set of buttons) > * These tabs include: > - footnotes (ie all the footnotes of verses in that chapter) > - cross-refs (ie all the crossrefs of verses in that chapter) > - personal notes (for that chap) > - names (ie all the people and places named, with links to > dictionaries) > - timeline (ie a minimised view of the time represented by that chapter) > > - vocab (ie all Greek, Hebrew and English words which occur in the > chapter) > > * between the two text panes put a column of bookmarks, > with an arrow in both directions, so you can open in either pane > * at the top are "manual" bookmarks and at the bottom are "automatic" > bookmarks > - add a manual bookmark by clicking on an arrow at the top middle of each > text > - an automatic bookmark is added everyone a pane moves away from a chapter > > by any means other than scrolling > * the two sets of bookmarks accumulate vertically in order of setting them > and when they run out of room, there is a scroll function to see older > ones > * a "back" button at the top of each text pane keeps a history of what was > displayed on that pane > > * when you hover over a tagged word, definitions etc appear as a hover > * this hover does NOT appear next to the cursor, but always in the Tab area > on the left, > because this area is not being used once a person has gone where they > want to go, > whereas an overlay by the cursor obscures the exact text being studied > * hover works within the text panes, and also in the boxes > - hovering over a cross-ref shows the verse, > - hovering over a Greek word in the text pane or a box shows a lexicon > entry > - hovering over a place name in text or pane or a box shows dictionary > entry > etc > * when you click on a ref (rather than hovering over it), the left-hand > text pane > goes to that chapter and highlights the verse clicked on > * when you click on a word or place or date (rather than hovering over it), > > the right-hand text pane shows a full lexicon or map or timeline. > > * A Search box is permanently visible at top left, above the Tabs > and results appear in the wider right-hand Tabs area > - this searches for English, Greek, Hebrew, numbers (for Strongs) and > Refs > working out for itself what it is searching for. > > > We have LOTS of data to display, but we want to try and accommodate small > screens - big problem! > Let's assume that phone screens will get bigger. > My Toshiba G910 has 800x600 pixels in eye-watering 2.5"x1.7" size, which is > great for those under 40, > but as soon as your lenses harden, you need +3 glasses to see the details. > I think phones will go in the way of high-density screens, though laptops > may not follow. > But I don't think we should assume that we will have this much space. > Although we can display a lot, people can't see so much detail. > > On small screens, we can treat the three areas (tabs on the left, and two > text panes) > as separate screens which you drag into view as on an iPhone. > With small screens, the hover area will have to be near the cursor, as in > most systems. > > Can someone with artistic skills make a visual of all this? > > David IB > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > >
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