-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 18.12.2012 00:48, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: > Hi Jaak. Of course I would discourage confusing potential > developers with an unofficial fork of the SWORD library on > gitorious.
I agree that this would cause confusion. It were better to avoid. That's why I started this outrageous thread. :) > But I'm confused by your comments. > > My apologies if I have any outstanding commits in my queue from > you which I haven't committed. Do I? Not that I'm aware of. However, I've seen several important issues on sword-devel mailing list, one or two of which I've filed, end up being discussed but never leading to actual solutions. > My complaint against the Bibletime code is that they inefficiently > use the SWORD engine by trying to wrap everything in their own > classes which even I have trouble understanding the intent. SWORD > was made to be used in a frontend, and we make it pretty easy to > use. I use it directly in the frontends and projects I have written > and cater it to real frontend needs. Bibletime, for the long life > of the project, has said they want to maintain this wrapper layer > around SWORD such that they can replace SWORD with an alternate > backend in the future. This has never happened, and I the > Bibletime frontend code which has been 'protected' from SWORD has > itself been rewritten many times, as far as I can see from the > mailing list. And though we've tried to encourage collaboration > for years, we have seen next to zero contributions to SWORD from > any of the Bibletime team (no offence to Greg and others who > contribute to many projects and who do contribute to SWORD). I > have tried to get participation, but I usually only get complaints > and arrogant calls for a complete rewrite from developers who don't > even understand what's under the hood. As developers of a front-end, we are keen to have new features added. We're displaying the module texts as HTML. But not just as Sword passes them to us, but we would like something more. We want to transform those Sword outputs, e.g. add some interactive features etc etc. This requires some sort of additional processing. Developing such processing is complicated, because we're not absolutely sure about the format of the output Sword produces. Sometimes it has not been valid and we've seen strange markup being output to the user which he or she should not see. Working around such things has been a pain. Sword lacking a full formal specialization (e.g. BNF grammar) of the output in its documentation is a problem for us. Of course I don't understand what's under the hood. I've been studying the code and any documentation I've found, but still haven't figured it out. > I personally am old school and haven't acclimated to git. I've > used it for work projects and can get around. There are many things > I don't like, but git proponents seem to love it. I firmly don't > believe that our source control system is the hindrance to > contribution. We have a fairly high bar for contribution because > so many projects use our engine. In my experience, most open > source developers don't take code criticism well and are not > willing to submit to an authority when they are volunteering their > time-- which is their prerogative. We don't allow our code to > simply 'churn' because people want change it. We require a real > use case and defence for changes, to protect our frontend > developers from having to change their code, and our interface has > remained fairly stable over the year because of this. Sword could apply a workflow which would not 'churn' the code, e.g. with gatekeepers who optionally merge changes from others repository clones to the main repository. See http://git-scm.com/book/en/Distributed-Git-Distributed-Workflows http://thkoch2001.github.com/whygitisbetter/#any-workflow > Having said this, I do have a couple submissions (e.g., > inter-versification mapping framework) which I have not been > diligent to confirm and commit. But unless this is your specific > complaint, I'm not quite sure why the rebellious nature of your > email, instead of a friendly conversation about how to get your > developed new feature into the engine. I'd be happy to work with > you on anything you've developed. First of all, being rebellious is not my intent. I just want to push the project for some good synergy. In reply to my first post I have already received personal emails with requests to actually start handling a fork, do a release from it ASAP, fix the interfaces and compiler warnings. I don't want to fork. I don't think others want to split the project either. But we need fixes to applied faster, bugfix releases to be made earlier etc. Me and other volunteers are willing to do some work for this. We're asking for Sword to meet us halfway. I work as a C/C++ engineer, I have a MSc in Computer Science, specializing in programming language theory. At work, I refactor a lot of code, I read the ANSI C and C++03/C++11 standards (drafts) almost daily. I'd like to extensively refactor and optimize your code. Are you sure Sword could handle my stream of patches by email? 1) Anyway, what is the process of submitting patches? Only by email? git? 2) What is the process of reviewing and merging patches? 3) Who does all that? 4) How do I monitor this process? 5) What are my options to interact and accelerate development? Maybe I've missed some documentation, but generally I feel that these are unanswered questions. This is one obstacle. How does one contribute? I'm not blaming anyone. I feel but strong gratitude for all you have done for Sword and the community. However not all things are perfect and well, I'm just pointing where it hurts. As for other living organisms, pain is a sign of things not being ok. We can try to ignore the pain and slowly fade to oblivion, we can get really depressed and groan and moan and die, or we can try to be constructive and work to eliminate the threats and ensure a better future. I currently feel that our current progress has all three of the aforementioned. We still somewhat ignore the problem, we still get depressed, groan and moan, and we're just getting to become constructive. As for getting constructive, there are obstacles. These MUST be eliminated. For one, I think Sword should clarify and simplify the contribution process to allow new developers, even random passers-by to help out. Other obstacles are also being discussed. God bless! 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