Thanks, Greg,
Very comprehensive analysis.
Blessing!
David
Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
On Sun, Mar 15, 2020 at 17:20, Greg Hellings <greg.helli...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Here is the first example of a cQuote I can find in the NASB (the character
> you indicated doesn't appear in the NASB output I can locate, but this one
> does):
>
> $ diatheke -b NASB -k Gen.3.4-Gen.3.5
> Genesis 3:4: <w savlm="strong:H5175">The serpent</w> <w
> savlm="strong:H559">said</w> <w savlm="strong:H802">to the woman</w>, “<w
> savlm="strong:H4191">You surely</w> <w savlm="strong:H4191">will not die</w>!
> Genesis 3:5: <milestone marker="“" type="cQuote"/><w savlm="strong:H430">For
> God</w> <w savlm="strong:H3045">knows</w> <w savlm="strong:H3117">that in the
> day</w> <w savlm="strong:H398">you eat</w> <w savlm="strong:H5869">from it
> your eyes</w> <w savlm="strong:H6491b">will be opened</w>, and <w
> savlm="strong:H430">you will be like God</w>, <w
> savlm="strong:H3045">knowing</w> <w savlm="strong:H2896b">good</w> <w
> savlm="strong:H7451b">and evil</w>.”
> (NASB)
>
> Asking for the OSIS filter suppresses that character:
> $ diatheke -b NASB -f OSIS -k Gen.3.4-Gen.3.5
> Genesis 3:4: <w>The serpent</w> <w>said</w> <w>to the woman</w>, “<w>You
> surely</w> <w>will not die</w>!<milestone type="line"/>
> Genesis 3:5: <w>For God</w> <w>knows</w> <w>that in the day</w> <w>you
> eat</w> <w>from it your eyes</w> <w>will be opened</w>, and <w>you will be
> like God</w>, <w>knowing</w> <w>good</w> <w>and evil</w>.”<milestone
> type="line"/>
> (NASB)
>
> Enabling all available filters still doesn't give back that raw output:
> $ diatheke -b NASB -f OSIS -o nfmhcvaplsrbwgeixtM -k Gen.3.4-Gen.3.5
> Genesis 3:4: <note n="A" osisID="Gen.٣.٤.xref.A"
> type="crossReference"></note><w lemma="strong:H٥١٧٥">The serpent</w> <w
> lemma="strong:H٥٥٩">said</w> <w lemma="strong:H٨٠٢">to the woman</w>, “<w
> lemma="strong:H٤١٩١">You surely</w> <w lemma="strong:H٤١٩١">will not
> die</w>!<milestone type="line"/>
> Genesis 3:5: <w lemma="strong:H٤٣٠">For God</w> <w
> lemma="strong:H٣٠٤٥">knows</w> <w lemma="strong:H٣١١٧">that in the day</w> <w
> lemma="strong:H٣٩٨">you eat</w> <w lemma="strong:H٥٨٦٩">from it your eyes</w>
> <w lemma="strong:H٦٤٩١b">will be opened</w>, and <note n="A"
> osisID="Gen.٣.٥.xref.A" type="crossReference"></note><w
> lemma="strong:H٤٣٠">you will be like God</w>, <w
> lemma="strong:H٣٠٤٥">knowing</w> <w lemma="strong:H٢٨٩٦b">good</w> <w
> lemma="strong:H٧٤٥١b">and evil</w>.”<milestone type="line"/>
> (NASB)
>
> Switching to plain text we get a more interesting result. Namely, a blank
> line where the missing cQuote character is in the OSIS input.
> $ diatheke -b NASB -f plain -k Gen.3.4-Gen.3.5
> Genesis 3:4: The serpent said to the woman, “You surely will not die!
> Genesis 3:5:
> For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and
> you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
> (NASB)
>
> The HTML filter simply passes through the OSIS character unperturbed (this
> seems like a bug, to me, as I'm unaware of any <milestone> elements in HTML):
> $ diatheke -b NASB -f HTML -k Gen.3.4-Gen.3.5
> <html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html"
> charset="UTF-8" lang="en" xml:lang="en"/>
> <style type="text/css"></style></head><body>Genesis 3:4: <span
> style="font:Gentium;" ><w savlm="strong:H5175">The serpent</w> <w
> savlm="strong:H559">said</w> <w savlm="strong:H802">to the woman</w>, “<w
> savlm="strong:H4191">You surely</w> <w savlm="strong:H4191">will not
> die</w>!</span><br />
> Genesis 3:5: <span style="font:Gentium;" ><milestone marker="“"
> type="cQuote"/><w savlm="strong:H430">For God</w> <w
> savlm="strong:H3045">knows</w> <w savlm="strong:H3117">that in the day</w> <w
> savlm="strong:H398">you eat</w> <w savlm="strong:H5869">from it your eyes</w>
> <w savlm="strong:H6491b">will be opened</w>, and <w savlm="strong:H430">you
> will be like God</w>, <w savlm="strong:H3045">knowing</w> <w
> savlm="strong:H2896b">good</w> <w savlm="strong:H7451b">and
> evil</w>.”</span><br />
> (NASB)
> </body></html>
>
> But the HTMLHREF filter does:
> $ diatheke -b NASB -f HTMLHREF -k Gen.3.4-Gen.3.5
> <html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html"
> charset="UTF-8" lang="en" xml:lang="en"/>
> <style type="text/css"></style></head><body>Genesis 3:4: <span
> style="font:Gentium;" >The serpent said to the woman, “You surely will not
> die!</span><br />
> Genesis 3:5: <span style="font:Gentium;" >“For God knows that in the day you
> eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good
> and evil.”</span><br />
> (NASB)
> </body></html>
>
> Going from memory for the next two points:
> 1) HTMLHREF is the most common filter for our frontends to use. Even more
> common than HTML, as it converts links to anchor tags the frontend can capture
> 2) The purpose of the cQuote is to indicate that the character should be used
> to indicate continuation of a quote. Thus, it should not appear in /every/
> circumstance that it exists in the input document. It should only appear if
> the portion of the document being displayed does not include the preceding
> text where the actual opening quote lives.
>
> Assuming my two memory points above are correct: when I ask Diatheke for
> Genesis 3:4-5, I should NOT see the cQuote character at the start of the text
> of verse 5. Because verse 4 includes the opening quotation mark. However, if
> I ask for just Genesis 3:5, then I should see the cQuote character, because
> otherwise the reader does not have any way of knowing the text at the start
> of the verse is part of a quotation until they reach the close-quote
> character at the end of the verse. I have unbalanced quotation marks.
>
> So what we have are actually three different buggy behaviors that are
> intertwined.
> 1) The HTMLHREF filter SHOULD NOT be displaying the quotation mark when I'm
> asking for Gen.3.4-5
> 2) All other filters SHOULD be displaying the quotation mark when I'm asking
> for Gen.3.5, by itself
> 3) The plain filter SHOULD NOT be displaying a newline character in place of
> the cQuote at all
>
> These are not trivial bugs to conceptualize because they would require the
> filter to become context aware of the scripture and only process a cQuote if
> it appears in the first verse that is being processed. Our filter is
> relatively stateless, but I don't think it is entirely so. But, hopefully,
> this report can help formulate both a test case and a fix.
>
> --Greg
>
> On Sun, Mar 15, 2020 at 10:15 AM David Haslam <dfh...@protonmail.com> wrote:
>
>> It’s also apparent that the output of diatheke does not include these
>> markers though front-ends such as PocketSword do display them.
>>
>> Puzzling!
>>
>> Should this become an issue in our tracker for MODTOOLS ?
>>
>> Best regards
>>
>> David
>>
>> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 21:06, David Haslam <dfh...@protonmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I have observed that the 3 modules in the Lockman repository make use of
>>> the following OSIS milestone element.
>>>
>>> <milestone marker="»" type="cQuote"/>
>>>
>>> The actual marker character varies between modules and even within a module.
>>>
>>> I assume that these mark the occurrence of a Continuation Quotation Mark of
>>> one form or another in the printed text.
>>>
>>> It seems a pity that in SWORD there is no corresponding
>>>
>>> GlobalOptionFilter=OSISMilestoneMarkers
>>>
>>> that front-ends could make use of in order to show/hide these characters.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>> Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
>>
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