It's viable for Doctrine forms if nobody ever forgets and types
doctrine:build. Not sure whether the admin generator would respect it,
but I imagine it would since it uses Doctrine forms. Would filters use
it?

A factories.yml default for the generator class would sure help.

On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 8:56 PM, Kris Wallsmith
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi Tom,
>
> Have you tried creating a custom generator class that provides an alternate 
> widget class? I still think this is the best solution…
>
> Thanks,
> Kris
>
> On Sep 1, 2010, at 5:27 PM, Tom Boutell wrote:
>
>> Marijn, I understand that "echo $form" is not supported as a way of
>> creating deployment-ready, properly styled Symfony sites. Fabien has
>> made that pretty clear - your design team is supposed to template out
>> forms if they want them to look good. I think there's a reasonable
>> middle ground somewhere but that's a completely separate discussion.
>>
>> Here I am talking about "echo $form['date']->render()". That is a
>> supported practice for well-styled Symfony sites, in fact it is the
>> lowest level the designer is supposed to be able to access according
>> to the relevant chapters of the Symfony books. This *is* "templating
>> out the form all the way." So it ought to be possible to get good
>> results with it from the standard widgets. The markup *inside* the
>> widget is not accessible to them (the front end designers), they
>> cannot fix it. And even if they could (perhaps by assuming that the id
>> format and name format will never change and writing their own form
>> elements, outputting all of their own attributes etc.), it would be a
>> considerable waste of time. Every time and date widget in a given site
>> will almost certainly have the same markup.
>>
>> We are currently overriding every single date and time widget via
>> configure() in every single Symfony 1.4 site. This takes a lot of time
>> and energy and it is worth questioning whether it is really true that
>> nothing can be done about it until we all rewrite everything for
>> Symfony 2.0.
>>
>> Unfortunately it's true that someone might be targeting span as a
>> (very lazy) alternative to a class name for something inside a form
>> row. As you point out they might feel safe doing so when they target
>> spans within a particular form.
>>
>> Don't forget, my original suggestion to have Base classes for the
>> widget was quite backwards compatible. I am hard pressed to imagine
>> why any Symfony code could care that a widget class now had an
>> additional parent in its tree of ancestor classes. I'm simply
>> responding to Jon and Fabien's suggestions that Base classes for
>> widgets are not an option, but that changing the markup might be
>> acceptable. We have lots of existing projects to support here too and
>> BC is a concern for us as well. Please don't assume the worst.
>>
>> Perhaps the best we can do is provide cleverness in
>> BaseForm::configure() that explicitly looks for the standard widgets
>> and replaces them with new widgets that receive the same options. It's
>> wasteful, but at least it's reusable.
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 8:03 PM, Marijn Huizendveld
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Dear Tom,
>>> As much as I agree with you that the current HTML is broken, this will
>>> create backwards incompatible changes.
>>> As much as I admire your effort to find the least obtrusive mark-up (on
>>> which choice I agree) I simply cannot come up with a reasonable explanation
>>> as to why we would want to create a possible backwards incompatible change
>>> like this...
>>> Although styling "naked" span elements is stupid I'm sure someone has a CSS
>>> rule like the following:
>>> form#my_admin_form #my_fieldset .sf_admin_form_row span
>>> {
>>>   /*do something special here*/
>>> }
>>> This is not generic styling but this will be effected by your changes in the
>>> time widget.
>>> It seems to me that the one and only reason you would like to get this
>>> change include is that you can simply keep on calling <?php echo $form; ?>
>>> in your template.
>>> As much as that utopia is desirable (and sometimes reasonable) it should
>>> never be considered the only viable option for creating forms.
>>> I'm sorry if I seem like a jerk but to me it seems you are trying to push a
>>> change through (again I agree for the need) that will fix a problem for you
>>> that has other solutions for it (override those default widgets in your own
>>> custom library, writing a more verbose template, creating a better time
>>> widget for the sfFormExtraPlugin).
>>> Again sorry for acting like a jerk who is putting his foot down, but could
>>> you explain my why you don't choose any of the less intrusive alternatives
>>> for other framework users?
>>> Kindest regards,
>>> Marijn
>>> On Sep 1, 2010, at 11:45 PM, Tom Boutell wrote:
>>>
>>> I would love to see that change made. Thank you for considering it.
>>>
>>> I just had a chat with John Benson, one of our lead front end guys. He
>>> wants this very much, but has his own backwards compatibility
>>> concerns. Changes to markup affect designers the way changes to PHP
>>> affect developers.
>>>
>>> Fortunately we have agreed on a safe way to do it.
>>>
>>> Right now we have this:
>>>
>>> <select>...</select>
>>>   /
>>> <select>...</select>
>>>   /
>>> <select>...</select>
>>>
>>> Two big problems:
>>>
>>> 1. There is no wrapper around the whole thing, thus no clean way to
>>> target the whole thing with CSS or JavaScript. I've seen imaginative
>>> and admirable hacks, but they are not clean and tend to target other
>>> stuff in unexpected ways. This kills attempts at full progressive
>>> enhancement.
>>>
>>> 2. The slashes (for dates) and colons (for times) have no wrapper, so
>>> they cannot be targeted. This kills attempts to style or alter the
>>> widgets for non-JS environments or otherwise improve them in ways less
>>> dramatic than full replacement by JS.
>>>
>>> Please help us out by giving the whole thing a class, and by giving
>>> the separators a class. Make sure those classes are namespaced to
>>> Symfony:
>>>
>>> // For date
>>>
>>> <span class="sf-date">
>>>  <select>...</select><span class="sf-separator">/</span>
>>>  <select>...</select><span class="sf-separator">/</span>
>>>  <select>...</select>
>>> </span>
>>>
>>> // For time
>>>
>>> <span class="sf-time">
>>>  <select>...</select><span class="sf-separator">:</span>
>>>  <select>...</select><span class="sf-separator">:</span>
>>>  <select>...</select>
>>> </span>
>>>
>>> (There is whitespace here for legibility but of course there should be
>>> no whitespace between the elements.)
>>>
>>> Now we can target .sf-date and .sf-time, and also target .sf-date
>>> .sf-separator and .sf-time .sf-separator.
>>>
>>> The use of 'span' here is important. Any other element would be highly
>>> likely to have non-BC impacts on reasonably well written CSS (or even
>>> unstyled HTML). You can't suddenly make a div out of something and
>>> have folks discovering that there's a line break between the date
>>> widget and the time widget that they did not intend and did not have
>>> before updating Symfony.
>>>
>>> 'span' is safe because it is well understood to be an element whose
>>> only purpose is to allow ids and classes to be associated with a run
>>> of inline content (which HTML5 has renamed "phrasing" content),
>>> otherwise leaving it alone. Aggressively styling all naked span
>>> elements in the entire document is widely understood to be a bad
>>> choice. (: So we shouldn't have to worry that the mere presence of a
>>> span will change the appearance of pages.
>>>
>>> Also, the select element is inline/phrasing content in both HTML 4 and
>>> HTML 5, so it's appropriate to enclose in a span.
>>>
>>> With these changes it becomes possible to replace these composite
>>> widgets cleanly through progressive enhancement or style them
>>> reasonably well as they are. It would be better to be able to override
>>> some of their defaults for an entire project, notably the interval
>>> between choices on the minutes selector and the choice of separator,
>>> but if we can't have that, this is still a huge improvement.
>>>
>>> One more concern: some people want to make sites whose connection to
>>> Symfony (or any particular development tool) is invisible. If that is
>>> an issue then the sf- prefix for the class names could be made
>>> configurable via settings.yml. The vast majority would leave it set to
>>> sf-, I imagine.
>>>
>>> Thanks again for looking at the possibility of improving the markup
>>> for the composite date and time widgets. If there are any other
>>> composite widgets in Symfony I'm not thinking of, it would be a good
>>> idea to apply the same review to them to make sure they can be
>>> effectively styled.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 4:13 PM, Fabien Potencier
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 8/27/10 6:30 PM, Tom Boutell wrote:
>>>
>>> Marijn, the basic time and date widgets are a miserable user
>>>
>>> experience and their lack of reasonable structure (there's no
>>>
>>> containing element to attach your progressive enhancements to) makes
>>>
>>> it extremely difficult to enhance them across your entire project
>>>
>>> unless you manually override every single widget, which defeats the
>>>
>>> purpose of Doctrine forms.
>>>
>>> Why not just fix this problem instead of inventing something new? I would
>>>
>>> happily change the default HTML if it makes sense and if it is BC.
>>>
>>> Fabien
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> If you want to report a vulnerability issue on symfony, please send it to
>>>
>>> security at symfony-project.com
>>>
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>>> Groups "symfony developers" group.
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>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Tom Boutell
>>> P'unk Avenue
>>> 215 755 1330
>>> punkave.com
>>> window.punkave.com
>>>
>>> --
>>> If you want to report a vulnerability issue on symfony, please send it to
>>> security at symfony-project.com
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>>> --
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>>> security at symfony-project.com
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Tom Boutell
>> P'unk Avenue
>> 215 755 1330
>> punkave.com
>> window.punkave.com
>>
>> --
>> If you want to report a vulnerability issue on symfony, please send it to 
>> security at symfony-project.com
>>
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>
> --
> If you want to report a vulnerability issue on symfony, please send it to 
> security at symfony-project.com
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "symfony developers" group.
> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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>



-- 
Tom Boutell
P'unk Avenue
215 755 1330
punkave.com
window.punkave.com

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