Finally I will not apply to GSoC because it will take too much time
and I want to use this summer to rest and work on some personal
projects. But in any case, I will implement what I said on units and I
will et you know of the advances.

Harold

On 23 fév, 10:50, "Harold E." <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 22 fév, 16:21, Sergiu Ivanov <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hello,
>
> > On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 9:54 PM, Harold E. <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > On 20 fév, 12:44, Sergiu Ivanov <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > >> I'm far from being an expert in this field, so my questions arise
> > >> rather from curiosity than from some serious background
> > >> considerations: what uses do you envision for this feature of
> > >> recovering the right constant?
>
> > > The use of constants as units is in the heart of theoretical physics,
> > > since in some way it emphases the unification of several concepts. I
> > > will use the example of special relativity: Einstein found the formula
> > > E = mc², which means that the mass and the energy are exactly the same
> > > thing and that we do not need to distinguish between these two
> > > concepts, because if in some formula you use one concept, you can
> > > immediately replace it with the other with the help of this formula.
> > > The same happen for space and time (one can see this with the
> > > Lorentz's transformation formula).
>
> > Aha, I think I've read about this approach to introducing units
> > before; your explanation brings up some vague memories in my head.
>
> > > Then, even if we do all the computations without writing explicitly
> > > these constants, it's useful to write them at the end for several
> > > reason:
> > > 1. We are not accustomed to these units, because the value of
> > > quantities are very different than the one of our daily experiences (v
> > > = 0.3 c = 100000 km/s, v = 100 km/h ~ 10⁻¹⁰), and a formula will
> > > generally "speak" us better if we can see these fundamental constants.
> > > 2. Because of (1), our usual unit systems are very different, and so
> > > it is easier for experiences and many other things to be able to
> > > convert.
> > > 3. Again because of (1) when you learn special relativity and so on,
> > > you prefer to keep these factors.
>
> > I see, this is clear.
>
> > >> On the other hand, recovering the constant requires quite a bit of
> > >> analysis of the environment.  For example, in a certain environment, I
> > >> may use E to denote something different from the total energy.
>
> > > Yes of course, here this formula was only an example. The idea to
> > > recover the right factors are for example to say that in the left
> > > side, the unit is J.c⁻², and in the right side it's kg. So we can
> > > extract the good factors. If we don't have this possibility, we can
> > > also say that "I want that this formula has the dimension X", which is
> > > useful if people don't want to take in account the constants at the
> > > beginning.
>
> > Going back to your original idea of manipulating units as vectors,
> > finding the necessary factors is equivalent to solving vector
> > equations with cross-products and to solving matrix equations (to some
> > extent), right?
>
> It's exactly this, but I will not do these computations since sympy
> has already a linear algebra module.
>
> > To me, it looks like implementing units with a sufficiently generic
> > approach may give you support for constants as units almost for free.
> > If the user can define their own base and derived units, then they may
> > just choose another basis and specify how units are derived.  If you
> > can fully have custom units, you can surely have constants as units.
>
> > Another impression of mine is that having custom units is actually the
> > right way to go towards the goal of having constants as units.
>
> > I guess you have thought of these things yourself already, so I'm just
> > dumping my reasoning for the sake of providing a point of view.
>
> It's a good summary of what I plan to do. Some points are still not
> clear for me, but they are small details.
>
> > > No problem, I posted this message with this goal! I hope that my
> > > explanations help you. There is a very good article of Jean-Marc Lévy-
> > > Leblond on this topic (www.springerlink.com/content/
> > > kh1n15r56q0682v8/), but more on the philosophical point of view.
>
> > Yes, your explanations made the whole thing much clearer to me, thank
> > you for your effort! :-) (and sorry for my slow response)
>
> > Sergiu
>
> Harold

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