I take it you started working on this, because I just recieved a ton of buildbot errors in my inbox today.
Aaron Meurer On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 9:08 PM, Aaron Meurer <[email protected]> wrote: > On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 6:26 PM, Matthew Brett <[email protected]> wrote: >> Hi, >> >> On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 10:48 PM, Aaron Meurer <[email protected]> wrote: >>> On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 4:39 PM, Matthew Brett <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 7:16 PM, Aaron Meurer <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> <snip> >>>>>> Have the authors of conda gone on the distutils mailing lists to >>>>>> advocate conda as a solution to the distutils problem? >>>>> >>>>> A lot of conda is built around the frustration of the bad design >>>>> decisions of distutils plus the inability for the community to really >>>>> understand the needs of the scientific community, so conda works more >>>>> or less around distutils (the build stage works on top of distutils, >>>>> if you want, but the install stage works independent of it). >>>>> >>>>> To answer your question, I'm not sure what direct advocation has been >>>>> done, but the core packaging guys are definitely aware of conda. >>>> >>>> Yes, that was my impression. >>>> >>>>>>> In fact, a lot of people are starting to use conda (either using >>>>>>> Anaconda or separate from it), because it really solves these problems >>>>>>> (this includes people at Berkeley). >>>>>> >>>>>> I may not be talking to those people for some reason :) >>>>>> >>>>>>> The great thing about Anaconda (the distribution) is that it comes >>>>>>> with things that really enhance the SymPy experience, like the IPython >>>>>>> notebook, matplotlib, the IPython qtconsole (which is a serious pain >>>>>>> to install from source even on Mac OS X), numpy, scipy, and so on. We >>>>>>> have to remember with SymPy that we are part of the SciPy stack >>>>>>> (http://www.scipy.org/about.html). >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes, I teach using a lot of that stack, so I too need all the >>>>>> dependencies installed. We agree that Anaconda is convenient, but >>>>>> may be we disagree about the potential risks to the ecosystem. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm not suggesting that we deprecate the large installers, but only we >>>>>>>> be careful to make sure that other options exist. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm happy to do the extra work over the hour needed for sympy release, >>>>>>>> to generate the windows installers, and test them. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The issue is that I really want it to be possible to make the entire >>>>>>> release by myself, whenever I want to. Far be it from me to turn away >>>>>>> help, but the kind of help that actually isn't helpful is to say, >>>>>>> "sure, I can help you do that whenever you do a release. Just ping >>>>>>> me". >>>>>> >>>>>> Well - you plan to do the release without the windows installers. So, >>>>>> why not - do the release without the windows installers - and then >>>>>> >>>>>> a ) ping me to upload the windows installers OR >>>>>> b) let me set up an automated system to build the installers on our >>>>>> buildbots and you can upload those after triggering the build on the >>>>>> web and downloading the built installers to your machine. >>>>>> >>>>>> There's no need for the windows installers to arrive at the same time >>>>>> as the source installers is there? Why not leave the binary >>>>>> installers as pleasant extras on pypi to be uploaded when ready. >>>>>> That's what the matplotlib guys have done for the last release, for >>>>>> example (for OSX). >>>>>> >>>>>>> And it isn't you personally. I don't want the release to become >>>>>>> dependent on *any* one person, myself included. That's why I worked so >>>>>>> hard to make the whole release process automated, so that it can be >>>>>>> reproduced by anyone (with the caveat that I'll need to give you >>>>>>> access to PyPI if you want to do it, but I'll do that for any core >>>>>>> developer who volunteers to do a release). >>>>>> >>>>>> As you can give access to pypi, I can give access the buildbot >>>>>> machinery, or set up the machinery to do the work automatically. The >>>>>> buildbot stuff is all on github, so it would not be very hard to set >>>>>> up your own buildbot farm if you don't want to use ours. I agree >>>>>> completely that it's good to automate the process and make it easy to >>>>>> pass on - we had the same idea when setting up the buildbots. >>>>> >>>>> I suppose if you want to set that up we can support it. Are these >>>>> buildbots capable of testing the installers so that we can be sure >>>>> that they work? >>>> >>>> Yes - they build the installer and then install it into a virtualenv >>>> and run the tests before uploading to a public web directory. Here's >>>> one example: >>>> >>>> http://nipy.bic.berkeley.edu/builders/nibabel-bdist32-32/builds/49 >>>> >>>> It sounds like a plan. I'll set those up. >>>> >>>>>>> By the way, just to be clear of something, are you requesting the >>>>>>> Windows installers, or just offering to help make them? I'm not asking >>>>>>> to discredit you, but simply because if you do, that's an argument to >>>>>>> do it (because as I noted earlier, if enough people request it, I >>>>>>> could be convinced). >>>>>> >>>>>> You're asking because, if I do not myself want the installers, the >>>>>> offer of help is not useful? >>>>> >>>>> No, again, not trying to discredit you or anything. Just trying to >>>>> tally a vote :) >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes, I want the installers, because I'm going to do more classes this >>>>>> year and I want my students to be able to do default installs of Sympy >>>>>> - because I use it all the time and I want them to use it to - as I do >>>>>> for the teaching notebooks. >>>>>> >>>>>> As a short thank you note, sympy has made a big difference to teaching >>>>>> because it's made it so much easier to integrate symbolic mathematics >>>>>> and numerical code. So, for my teaching, I want installing sympy to >>>>>> be as trivial and obvious as possible. "Go to pypi, download >>>>>> installer, run it". >>>>> >>>>> Well, you can't argue that if your top priority is to make things as >>>>> easy as possible for your students, then "install Anaconda" is the >>>>> simplest possible thing you can tell them, especially if you want to >>>>> include more than just SymPy. >>>> >>>> I want my students to leave with a system they will continue working >>>> with and building on, so it is OK with me that this isn't one-click. >>>> >>>>>> But - for the sake of the whole ecosystem - I want to avoid *having >>>>>> to* depend on the monolithic installers. >>>>> >>>>> SymPy is the last thing that will have to depend on Anaconda, because >>>>> it's pure Python, so building is not difficult. The "depending" is >>>>> more of an issue for compiled packages, where building, especially on >>>>> Windows, can be hugely painful. >>>>> >>>>> If the monolithicity is an issue for you, you can just install >>>>> Miniconda (http://repo.continuum.io/miniconda/) and install just what >>>>> you want. >>>> >>>> It sounds like we have a way forward with the buildbot installer >>>> builds then. I'll get onto that very soon. >>> >>> Thanks. Let me know when it's ready, and give me the email I should >>> give access to PyPI. >> >> OK - will do. >> >>> Should we also upload these to GitHub? We don't >>> have to if you don't want to do the work with playing with the API >>> (though I've already figured out how to do it if you look at the >>> release fabfile). >> >> Huh - I hadn't seen that machinery on github - I'll look into that. > > Yes, the releases API is new, and experimental. > > It's actually a little painful to get to work. You have to patch > requests (unless they've released a new version since I did 0.7.4) to > make the TLS work correctly, and make sure that three additional > packages are installed. > >> >>> Also tell me where the code is in case I need to >>> make any pull requests or check on anything. >> >> It will be in https://github.com/nipy/nibotmi >> >>> Regarding me pinging you, is there a way to automate that as well >>> (i.e., the release script just pings the build server somehow)? >> >> Yes, it looks like this is possible. You wouldn't need to ping me in >> any case, you can trigger builds from the web interface as well. >> >> I'm just debugging a release for another project at the moment, I will >> get to this as soon as I can. > > No rush from me. Do note that the next time I do a release I plan to > remove the Windows installer creation. > > Aaron Meurer > >> >> Cheers, >> >> Matthew >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "sympy" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sympy. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sympy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sympy. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
