On 15-Feb-17 05:52 PM, Jherome Miguel wrote:
On Feb 13, 2017 4:19 PM, "François Lacombe" <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hi Warin,
2017-02-13 8:42 GMT+01:00 Warin <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>:
In Australia;
Heavy industry gets 3 phases.
Same in Europe, 2-phases or 3-phases depends on needs.
Here 3-phases for heavy industry :
https://www.google.fr/maps/@45.2719628,6.3749132,3a,48.9y,219.64h,93.88t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdoIRusd2UEOaiNkxbR5tUw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1
<https://www.google.fr/maps/@45.2719628,6.3749132,3a,48.9y,219.64h,93.88t/data=%213m6%211e1%213m4%211sdoIRusd2UEOaiNkxbR5tUw%212e0%217i13312%218i6656%216m1%211e1>
2-phases for train traction (2 separate circuits of 2 phases each) :
From public power grid :
https://www.google.fr/maps/place/73300+Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne/@43.830987,4.5832895,3a,27.2y,18.11h,110.85t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shRm5LaCrnCyD-I8kNBVv0Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x478a25581ea5e5cf:0x408ab2ae4baab70!8m2!3d45.275403!4d6.344886!6m1!1e1
<https://www.google.fr/maps/place/73300+Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne/@43.830987,4.5832895,3a,27.2y,18.11h,110.85t/data=%213m6%211e1%213m4%211shRm5LaCrnCyD-I8kNBVv0Q%212e0%217i13312%218i6656%214m5%213m4%211s0x478a25581ea5e5cf:0x408ab2ae4baab70%218m2%213d45.275403%214d6.344886%216m1%211e1>
To traction substation :
https://www.google.fr/maps/place/73300+Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne/@43.8414547,4.5586151,3a,15y,304.69h,91.76t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2SoaNSBHWlYnq6u8vvwSRQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x478a25581ea5e5cf:0x408ab2ae4baab70!8m2!3d45.275403!4d6.344886!6m1!1e1
<https://www.google.fr/maps/place/73300+Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne/@43.8414547,4.5586151,3a,15y,304.69h,91.76t/data=%213m6%211e1%213m4%211s2SoaNSBHWlYnq6u8vvwSRQ%212e0%217i13312%218i6656%214m5%213m4%211s0x478a25581ea5e5cf:0x408ab2ae4baab70%218m2%213d45.275403%214d6.344886%216m1%211e1>
For the Philippines, two or three phases for the primary are for large
commercial customers, but the output, it is three-phase (220/380,
220/380/440, 440/760, 660/1150, 880/1530, and others, all 60 Hz).
Households use single-phase, either two-wire (220 volts) or three-wire
systems (220/440 volts, though electricity meters show "240 volts",
which is within the tolerance of 220 volts, the peak voltage of one
phase wire of the system
Errr most places this is the RMS voltage, not the peak voltage.
The 240 220 230 volts conflicts have been discussed for many years at an
international level. Now they agree that their present tolerances
encompass an agreed range ... that encompasses all those voltages.
), depending on location. The two-wire system is common on the
province usually served by electric cooperatives, but the three-wire
system is used on areas served by major private electric utilities
(Meralco, Visayas Electric Company/VECO, Davao Light, Cotabato Light
and Power, etc.)
Traction power in the Philippines (for the Metro Manila transit
systems only), is rather DC only, fed from the three-phase
distribution systems, transformed to the traction voltage, then
rectified to DC. No AC traction systems still exists in the
Philippines, but perhaps, may be used in the future on new lines or
mainline electrification.
A few houses may get 2 phases if their load is very large ..
but it is unusual and a safety concern, no single room should
have more than one phase.
Even fewer houses get 3 phase .. usually where the workshop
has a requirement for a 3 phase motor/furnace.
+1 same here, 3-phases fed households tend to disapear while
current usage is single phase + neutral pole.
I concur. Single-phase (line-neutral) or split-phase
(line-neutral-line) is the primary household distribution systems,
while a household customer on an area primarily using single-phase,
but requiring three-phase needs a separate transformer, at least the
line has the phases required, otherwise, the customer would require
the nearby distribution line to have the additional wires and the
dedicated transformer, or use a phase converter.
Single-phase supplies by households may be derived from a three-phase
line, but a single-phase line may do. The single-phase transformers
may have one or two primaries (though one bushing is connected to
ground instead on another phase wire and serves as a surge arrestor,
like the case of transformers used to provide 220 volt single-phase
power in most provinces of the Philippines), but the secondaries may
be single-phase (line-neutral) or split-phase (line-neutral-line).
Single-phase (line-neutral) may use a transformer with one or two
bushings (the latter has the second bushing being a surge arrestor,
being connected to ground instead on another primary), but for
split-phase (line-neutral-line), the transformer may have one or two
primary bushings, but on the case of two bushings, the second one may
be connected to another phase or ground.
Transformers will have an input voltage and an output voltage,
usually these voltages are different.
Sure, currently voltage=* expects a list with upper voltage;lower
voltage.
Or voltage-up and voltage-down can be used. I'm in favor of
voltage:primary + voltage:secondary (+ voltage:tertiary if
transformer got more than 2 interfaces).
Another proposal will be completed later for this.
Most of the time these voltages will be on the lines connected
to the transformer (and the pole) and would be redundant.
Yes they have to, but a pole can carry several lines or circuits
in the same line. If lines/circuits are operated at different
voltages, which one will serve the transformer(s) exactly ?
Furthermore, even if a single line is supported by the pole, which
side of the transformer is connected to it ?
I'm thinking of a pole carrying a "low voltage" line used for
distribution, hosting a transformer at the top of it and the
transformer gets its power from an underground "high voltage"
cable rising up on the pole itself. Then you'll need to know the
voltages of both cable and line AND the voltages of transformer's
sides to say the overhead "low voltage" line is fed wheter by the
primary or secondary interface.
It's a bit complex and I see no redundancy here.
On a multi-level pole, the line where the transformer is found may be
indicated by a power route relation, if there is. The pole where the
transformer is found may be tagged with the transformer role, and it
is important on lines with multiple circuits, but on single-circuit
lines, it is optional.
And for a transformer feeding a low voltage line from a high voltage
underground cable rising on the pole (through the pole itself, or on a
concrete structure with pipes embedded) I found some instances of it
in the Philippines. One example is a pole with three single-phase
transformers serving as a three-phase transformer, and the primary
comes from underneath.
Switches ... usually used for isolation.
Can you elaborate a bit more please ?
Not certain what elaboration you need? Isolation ...is simply turning a
line off, for maintenance/repair.
Switches on poles tend to be manual (mechanical). Switches in
substations and stations tend to be automatic.
On a pole with two or more levels (i.e. cross-arms), I used two solutions:
1. Tag the pole-mounted switch with switch=* separated by pipes
(|), so, for tagging a switch on the lowest cross-arm of a two-level
pole, it will be tagged switch=|mechanical. So, for a switch on the
upper cross-arm in the same situation, it is vice versa (i.e.
switch=mechanical|)
2. On a relation of the line where the switch belongs, tag the pole
with the switch role.
All the best
François
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