I was asked what I meant with
- (this tag is purpose-free) My sloppy way of saying the tag is used to describe a shape (nearly) independently of its purpose. "embankment" in OSM is used in this multi -purpose way whereas "dyke" is only used for a narrow range of objects that are related to water. I acknowledge the expression is not very precise. Volker On Fri, 29 Nov 2019, 22:16 Joseph Eisenberg, <joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com> wrote: > I agree that there is a need to define the correct way to tag the > center-line of a two-sided embankment or earthworks. > > This was mentioned previously in the discussion starting here: > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2019-May/045798.html > and continued here: > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2019-May/045798.html > > It could be called an "earthwork": "a raised area of earth made, > especially in the past, > for defense against enemy attack", or "embankment" or "rampart" > instead of "berm". > > This is in use 200 times as barrier=earthworks > (https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/barrier=earthworks) > > or historic=earthworks - 196 times > (https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/historic=earthworks) > > or perhaps barrier=earth_bank - 184 times > (https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/barrier=earth_bank) > > There are a few uses of barrier=rampart and military=rampart. > > In contrast, barrier=berm has been used only 68 times, and > man_made=berm 14 times. > > But there are even more uses of embankment=yes as a standalone tag > along the center of an earthworks/berm/rampart/embankment, and there > is also quite a number of features tagged man_made=embankment + > embankment=both or embankment=two_sided > (https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/embankment=both and > https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/embankment=two_sided > 600) > > I don't think it would be a good idea to redefine man_made=embankment > to be two-sided. And using embankment=yes alone is a bit of a problem > since it is a unique key. > > But I'm not convinced that "barrier=berm" or "man_made=berm" is better > than "barrier=embankment" > > Also, I would oppose mapping berms as areas, especially if they are > under the "barrier=" key - these features are (almost) always linear, > and because "man_made=embankment" can be used to make the exact > location of the top of the embankment. > > On 11/28/19, Graeme Fitzpatrick <graemefi...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Thu, 28 Nov 2019 at 20:47, Volker Schmidt <vosc...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> > >> > >> - First of all when I see a both-sided sloped linear elevation I do > >> not know I see a berm.because it is a rarely used term > >> > >> Can you see a pile of dirt? If so, it's a berm. If it's a bricks, > blocks, > > rocks, concrete, wooden, steel or any other type of construction, it's > not! > > I agree it's not very common in normal usage, but would be quite common > in > > any engineering context, & there are any number of OSM terms which are > very > > specialised! > > > >> > >> - Second it is ill-defined from the shape point of view: it can > define > >> a step in an earth wall and it can mean an earth wall with sloped > >> sides > >> > >> Yep, either one could be a berm. > > > >> > >> - Fourth it can describe man-made or natural objects. > >> > >> I saw reference to berm also being used to describe a line of debris > > thrown up on a beach by a storm, however, that wouldn't be a permanent > > feature, as it would be changed by the next storm, or human use of the > > beach, so we wouldn't map it. > > > > Let's go back and define what we need > >> > > > > Agree with everything you say here > > > > > >> > >> - (this tag is purpose-free) > >> > >> Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by "purpose-free"? > > > > Thinking about it we may only need to add a new man_made=slope_base tag. > >> Packaging this together with the opposite man_made=embankment in a > >> "slope" > >> relation, this would give us the possibility to model even complex > >> objects. > >> Without a relation a closed man-made=slope_base way could be used to > >> draw > >> the footprint of levees/dykes. The use could be similar to > >> water=riverbank. > >> > > > > I did suggest area=slope or similar, to map the area of levee walls in > > discussion about large flood control levees a couple of weeks ago, but it > > didn't seem to go down very well? > > > > Thanks > > > > Graeme > > > > _______________________________________________ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >
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