On 16/1/20 12:08 pm, Paul Allen wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 at 00:49, Joseph Eisenberg <joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com <mailto:joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com>> wrote:

    I'm one of the maintainers of the Openstreetmap-carto style, but I
    think the community should make tagging decisions based on what works
    best for mappers and what makes logical sense, without worrying what a
    particular renderer will do.

Ummm, but what makes sense depends upon what popularly-used renderers
do, especially if there are two ways of doing things which renderers treat
differently.  If I map things that standard carto doesn't show, I can't spot
my mistakes.

If the 'standard map' starts rendering 'disused=yes' the same way as 'disused:*=*' (presently not rendered) then what?

    In this case I believe the decision to "deprecate" the tag disused=yes
    was made hastily without thinking clearly about the cases when it
    would make sense.

That seems likely, now you've explained the history.  It also applies to
abandoned and other lifecycle prefixes.

The problem is not with the tagging. The problem is with your requirement for rendering.

    But this is not always sensible in the case of physical features like
    a disused man_made=water_tower - the feature looks the same whether or
    not it is full of water, and general database/map users are interested
    in these features as orientations points in the landscape, not as part
    of the water supply network, so it's sensible to use
    man_made=water_tower + disused=yes.

That matches my thinking on the issue.  Others seem to agree.

So, at the very least, the wiki needs to be amended. However, I'd feel
happier if there were some assurance that we wouldn't have to amend
the wiki yet again at some future point because somebody at standard
carto decided that anything with disused=yes shouldn't be rendered.  An
assurance like that might also persuade other cartos to do the same

My thinking is that both 'disused=yes' and 'disused:*=* tag the same condition. As such they should be treated equally by renders.

The only reason why there is a preference for 'disused=yes' is that the present 'standard' render is ignoring it.

If you want physical objects with tagging for disused, abandoned, etc rendered on the 'standard' map then put a pull request in.

Stop tagging for the render.

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