New York's largest parks are enormous - the Adirondack Park is about the same land area as Massachusetts or Belgium, and the Catskill Park is about of a size with Yosemite National Park. Between the magnitude and the function, I've had no compunction about tagging both of them `boundary=national_park`, particularly since (as is also done in the UK) there is human habitation within them, still regulated by the park authorities. I discuss the reasoning behind this decision at considerably more length in the diary entry at https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/ke9tv/diary/390233.
Both of these large reserves have multiple state campgrounds within them, and these are `tourism=camp_site`, leaving the possibility of tagging the individual pitches if desired (I've not tried). They also contain ski areas and day use areas (the latter are `recreation_ground`), Wilderness Areas and Wild Forests (`boundary=protected_area protect_class=1b`) and various other facilities. A worked example is that the Fish Creek Pond Campground (https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/6378239) is surrounded by but cut out from the Saranac Lakes Wild Forest (https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/6362702), which is a diffuse area of state land (with waterways and private inholdings cut out) that is in turn within the Adirondack Park (https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/1695394). It has designated and numbered pitches within it which have been too numerous for me to map: https://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/permits_ej_operations_pdf/fishcreekmap2019.pdf. New York's State Parks (the two big ones aren't State Parks, they're a different beast entirely) are also tagged as protected areas. They are also a mix of conservation and recreation, In most of the larger ones, the former use predominates, so I also tag them as `leisure=nature_reserve` and exercise judgment (which may be inconsistent) about `protect_class`. In those cases, I overlay the other land uses - recreation_ground, camp_site, winter_sports, etc., and the data consumers don't appear to be all that unhappy with the result. For the largest of the State Parks (Allegany, Bear Mountain-Harriman-Sterling Forest, Minnewaska, Letchworth, Fahnestock, Hudson Highlands, Taconic, maybe Moreau Lake), I'd not be too uncomfortable with `boundary=national_park`, which would also deal with the fact that these parks contain multiple campgrounds wihtout bending the tagging rules by putting landuse within landuse. Some of the State Parks are actually historic sites, swimming beaches, marinas, stand-alone recreation grounds, golf courses or even parks in the European/OSM sense (landscaped areas principally for passive leisure and visual enjoyment). These are tagged according to their purpose. Many of New York's State Parks were initially entered by mappers other than me, I haven't always messed with their tagging, so there's still some inappropriate 'leisure=park' floating around. New York also has State Forests (`boundary=protected_area protect_class=6` since they are managed in part for timber harvest). I don't think any have managed campgrounds within their borders, but some do restrict backcountry camping to designated pitches, which could be mapped. Tagging of State Parks has been hotly debated, to say the least. My lengthy discussion, trying to find common ground, can be found at https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/ke9tv/diary/390260. The underlying problem with tagging appears to be that the word 'park' doesn't mean the same thing in the US that it does in the UK, and the language of OpenStreetMap tagging is UK English. Unfortunately, the UK really doesn't have anything that's parallel in structure and function to a 'state park' in the US, so there is no appropriate term for us to use! It tends to be that the purists see the multiple functions that a typical State Park serves, and say, "you can't map the whole thing, only map the individual facilities." Understandably, the US mappers rebel against that dictum: the "whole thing" is what is signed, and what appears on paper maps sold in the US, and what's commonly spoken of: "We're going to Bear Mountain State Park for the afternoon, want to come along?" ("State Park" is often omitted in speaking; to locals, 'Bear Mountain' more likely means the State Park than the eponymous mountain within it. It's quite ordinary to go to "Moreau Lake" and never come withiin sight of the lake, much less swim or put a boat in the water, or to "Bear Mountain" without climbing it.) On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 7:25 PM Marc M. <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hello, > > When fixing depreciated tag camp_site=camp_pitch, > I've found several of these in huge parks in the United States. > the current and approved definition of tourism=camp_pitch says that > sites are tourism=camp_site or tourism=caravan_site > however these parks often have identical characteristics to these > tourism=*_site : they sometimes have a common reception desk for > different camp_pitch, toilets, a drinking water point, ... > > what do you think is the best schema : > - Change the definition of tourism=camp_pitch to include these large > parks as a valid _site. > - add tourism=camp_site on the whole park ? with the default of having 2 > main tags on the same object > - other ideas ? > > one among others https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/Rsg > > Regards, > Marc > > _______________________________________________ > Tagging mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- 73 de ke9tv/2, Kevin _______________________________________________ Tagging mailing list [email protected] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
