On Sun, 28 Jun 2020 at 18:22, Martin Koppenhoefer <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On 28. Jun 2020, at 17:11, Paul Allen <[email protected]> wrote: > > Some cafes in the UK lack table service. Maybe somebody brings your > order over after you've placed your order at the counter, maybe your order > is announced when it is ready and you have to get it yourself, maybe > you sit down and somebody asks what you want then brings it over > when it is ready. > > > question is whether we distinguish these places by main type or by subtags. > Sub-tag, if we distinguish at all. On general principle. Because I can spot a cafe by looking through the window as I go past but I cannot determine the type of service without hanging around or going in. Sub-tag so extra detail can be added later. Make it a main tag and I have to guess, and may guess wrong. Is a self service restaurant a restaurant? > I wouldn't describe self-service as a restaurant. Restaurants have a larger menu, full service and are more expensive than cafes. Restaurants are about experience; cafes are about food. Bistros (British English usage) are small restaurants. Providing table service or not is a significant difference that gener > merits reflection in tagging (IMHO). > By itself, probably not. But I wouldn't expect to ever find a place in the UK calling itself a restaurant but being self-service. A place where you serve yourself is more of a canteen than a cafe. But cafes range anywhere from "sit down and somebody will take your order" to "walk up to the counter, give your order, sit down until your order is ready, walk back to the counter to get your order, sit down again". Maybe there is some merit in sub-tagging those. Oh, and that was back in the Before Times, things have probably changed, at least for the next year or so. Cafes sell more than coffee. Cafes may have > > only one, rather inferior, brand of coffee. > > > maybe in Britain ;-) > Things have changed even in Britain. 15 years ago it would be rare to find a cafe with more than one type of coffee and the choice was with milk or without milk. Now they often have many types of coffee with many additions, but I always order "coffee-flavoured coffee" anyway. Even so, 15 years ago with only one type of coffee, it was still a cafe. 50 years ago it may only have had tea, but it was still a cafe. > Bad jokes aside, I recall a discussion on the local mailing list to tag > coffee brands, and there are a handful examples in the db: > https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=brand%3DLavazza > There are so many, though. Even a small (4-person) distributor near me developed their own blends several years ago and added their own roasting machinery (home-built) a couple of years ago. They supply a lot of cafes within about a 30-mile radius. Are they big enough to deserve their own brand in OSM? Add a craft=patisserie node. > > the scheme for craft is craft=profession so patisserie does not really > make sense. > True. But a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, according to Emmerson. :) > > I guess craft=pâtissier is not considered to be English? > It's not well-known outside the cognoscenti, is my guess. But we borrow words all the time. Like "cognoscenti." Actually, it looks like we already have borrowed that one and decided it means "pastry chef." My dictionary says craft=confectioner does this make sense? > Confectioners make or sell (usually sell) confections, which are things that are rich in sugar. Divided into bakers' confections (cakes with lots of icing) and sugar confections (sweets). Often, in my experience, applied to sweet shops that wish to sound more up-market. So too ambiguous to apply to patissiers. -- Paul >
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