On 15/8/20 4:49 am, Hidde Wieringa wrote:
Good day,
I am having trouble with the tourism tags caravan_site and camp_site,
specifically for the use case of finding a place to camp with a tent
(so not a caravan or a camper van).
My goal is to differentiate the two tags. Both tags allow tents, and
both allow camper vans and caravans. Both tags may or may not provide
facilities such as toilets, water, electricity, et cetera. In
practice, the only thing that differentiates a pitch for a tent versus
a pitch for a caravan or camper van, is the ground underneath (tents
require some sort of soft material like grass). This differentiating
property is not mentioned at all in the Wiki.
- The tag tents=yes/no (only listed in the camp_site Wiki) would be a
good way to find a place to camp with a tent, but almost none of the
caravan_site have this tag. All camp_sites in OSM I have camped on,
allowed tents.
- Some of the caravan_site have been tagged with amenity=parking or
even surface=asphalt and this would mean that camping with a tent is
definitely not possible.
- I noticed that both of the tags have status 'de facto', and no
proposals have been made for the definition of said tags. I found an
abandoned proposal [1] that has a good discussion about camping [2].
- Some camp_sites have a 'nested' polygon with a caravan_site. This
seems logical, and the caravan_site can be ignored, and the camp_site
can be used for camping with a tent.
Statistics from TagInfo: camp_site has ~100,000 uses, and caravan_site
has ~30,000 uses.
I ran a quick Overpass query for a small number of caravan sites (~15)
[3]. Some of them note on their website that camping with a tent is
possible, and the surface of the pitches seems to be grass. I am
wondering if these should be re-tagged as camp_site, or if I am
missing something.
My opinion would be that a camp_site should allow staying overnight
with many types of vehicles/tents, indicated by the tags listed
clearly on the wiki of camp_site. A caravan_site would allow staying
overnight with vehicles only, and not allow camping with a tent.
Concretely the sentence "They may also have some space for tents." on
[4] is the problem. Replacing the sentence on the wiki with "Camping
with a tent is not possible." would remove any ambiguity
differentiating these tags.
Any comments are welcome. I am willing to update the wiki or draft a
proposal for differentiating these two tags, if necessary.
Kind regards,
/Hidde Wieringa/
[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Extend_camp_site
[2]
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/Extend_camp_site#caravan_site_separated.3F
[3] https://tyrasd.github.io/overpass-turbo
<https://tyrasd.github.io/overpass-turbo/?q=LyoKVGhpcyBoYcSGYmVlbiBnxI1lcmF0ZWQgYnkgdGhlIG92xJJwxIlzLXR1cmJvIHdpemFyZC7EgsSdxJ9yaWdpbmFsIHNlxLBjaMSsxIk6CsOiwoDCnHRvxKjEhW09Y8SwYXZhbl9zacSVIMWVxJfElW50cz1ub8WIwp0KKi8KW8WMdDpqc29uXVt0aW1lxaw6MjVdOwovL8SPxJTEnXIgcmVzdWzFoAooCiAgxoAgcXXEksSaxKNydCBmb3I6IMWIxYrFjMS3c8WPxZHEk8WUxZbFmMWaxZzEm8SNxaDFosWkwoDFpsaQxaNkZVsixYvFjcalIj0ixqfFk8WVxZfFmWUixbMhxZ7FoF0oe3tixKp4fX0pxb7GkHdheca5xrvGpG3GvseAxZLGqceExJXHh1vHicavc8eMx47HkG_HkseUx5bGhmVsxJRpxbHHm8ajxY7Hn8eBx6LGq8eGx4jHisepx43Hj8eRx5PHlQrIhsaScMS3xZ_HscaJxotzCsWsxJhvZHnFvj7FvsiSc2vHssaTdDs&c=BNxUhr7BxL&;>
[4] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:tourism%3Dcaravan_site
The web site https://opencampingmap.org/#10/48.6100/8.2400/0/1/bef is an
attempt to encourage mapping of camp and caravan site attributes...
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