On Fri, 13 Nov 2020 at 22:54, ipswichmapper--- via Tagging < tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
> Hello, I have quite a few questions about Public Transport related tagging > in Openstreetmap. > > My first question is about the "interval:conditional" & "opening_hours" > tag for bus routes. The "Bus Route" page on the OSM wiki mentions this tag, > but the train route or "public transport" route page does not mention this > tag at all. So I wanted to ask, is this tag discouraged? > > The disadvantage of this tag, obviously, is that it is quite difficult to > maintain. However, I think it is possible. My method would be to make a > table which contains all the public transport route relations in an area, > and add a column for "last checked". This would display the last date that > this public transport route was checked. Regular mappers can do a check of > a bunch of public transport routes every few months to see if the > opening_hours or interval:conditional has changed. (I plan on including > this on a guide to mapping public transport routes that I will be making). > > Here is the table for Ipswich: > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Ipswich#Public_Transport_Version_2 > > Note currently, this is not formatted how I described. The reason for this > is because not every bus routes has been added, so instead of having a > "last checked" column, there are four columns ("interval", > "interval:conditional", "duration", "opening_hours"). This is because some > of the unfinished routes still don't have these tags. > > Second question is about mapping train route stops. If I understand > correctly, you are meant to add the platform at which people wait with role > "platform" as well as the stop position of the train with role "stop". > > I see issue with this. Firstly, none of this is clarified on the wiki > under train routes. Secondly, what if you don't know what platform the > train will leave from? What if there is no platform? In the UK this isn't a > problem as all train stations have platforms. However, in other countries, > in rural areas, train stations may not have any built up platform, you just > wait by the side of the railway. > > Secondly, why do you have to map stops and not platforms? Again, if the > train goes at different platforms, then the stop position will also be > different. You may not know what the stop position is, in which case you > chose a random point on the railroad. Instead, it would be much better if > you could just mark the "station" as a member of the relation. However, > there is no "station" role, so adding a station creates a role verification > problem. > > Last question is about "combining intervals". This is something that, if > needed, can be asked about in another thread (as it needs more discussion). > In many cases, multiple bus routes go down the same path for a significant > section of their journey, and split near the end of their journey. An > example of this is route 66 & route 66A in Ipswich. [1][2][3] > > For most of their journey, these buses have the same route. Combined, > their interval is "every 20 minutes". The interval of 66A is every hour. > The 66 has a 20 minute interval, then a 40 minute one, then a 20 min one, > etc. > > If these were mapped separately, you a routing software wouldn't be able > to compute that the interval is 20 minutes. So how can this be fixed? > > The solution I can think of is to map a separate relation called > ("66/66A") which is the combined route and give it a interval of 20 > minutes. However, I'm pretty sure some tags would be needed to be made for > this, because otherwise it breaks the ground rule (as there is no bus > called "66/66A" in real life). > > Another interesting idea was suggested in this Reddit post: > > > https://old.reddit.com/r/openstreetmap/comments/jkdsjr/common_area_of_bus_routes/ > > That is that roads with multiple bus routes can be tagged with the bus > route, instead of the other way route (to cut down on repetition). > > Thanks, > > IpswichMapper > > [1]: https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/190701 > [2]: https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/9984463 > [3]: > https://www.firstgroup.com/uploads/maps/FEC-Ipswich%20Reds%2066%20-%20Bus%20Times%20from%2025-10-20.pdf > > > I think under PTv2 the point you board/alight is meant to be marked as a platform even when it's just a pole in muddy ground. I have also seen recent proponents say that stop positions are not compulsory although I think on one of the first things I saw on PTv2 was strongly of the view that mainly using stops over platforms was one of its main advantages. For the 66/66A question: I think under PTv2 each direction for each variant is meant to have its own route relation which is then combined into a route_master relation. I would assume that if you have an interval that applies across variants you would put that in the route_master rather than the individual route. Take what I say with a grain of salt though, while I do my best to map/update stops I find it very difficult to stitch information displayed on stops into meaningful relations, especially when I've looked at the various stops on different days.
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