*FOLLOW UP HYPOTHETICAL: * I've been thinking about this a lot. I'm arguing here that,
* Landuse for developed land can be better automatically generated when there isn't a named polygon. * If automatically generated, we can achieve perfect accuracy or quantify the margins of errors (the degree to which a buildings adhere to the landuse that contains them). I think not everyone grasps this. Let me put forward an alternative to illustrate this. Let us create a new landuse-esque tag called "density" Let density come in three flavors, "density=high", "density=low", "density=medium" * Low Density is where you have mostly single story buildings * Medium Density is where your buildings average to five or fewer levels. * High Density is where most of your buildings have more than 5 levels What would be ideal: (a) to have users create these polygons in OSM, or (b) to automatically calculate density as a function of the buildings in the polygon by referring to building:levels? This is a direct analogy to how I see unnamed landuse for developed land. There is an application for landuse, and for density. However, I don't understand why these are better left to users rather than automatically generated. If we want to support landuse for developed land moving forward, I highly suggest automatically inferring it from the contents of polygons created in the method outlined in my reply to Joseph Eisenberg. =) On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 1:34 PM Evan Carroll <[email protected]> wrote: > Lyft has been adding thousands of Polygons around Houston for Retail and > Residential and Industrial Areas. I'm just wondering what the motivation > here is for Lyft's behavior, especially in Texas. It seems like a lot of > bloat on OSM. IMHO, these polygons don't add any value: they're not > describing what things are, and they're frequently incorrect. Houston > doesn't have zoning: stating what something is today as if it was a zone is > problematic anywhere (as at best it's only ever administrative where there > is zoning) but even more so in Houston where with enough money you can buy > the property and put an industrial plant there (assuming the property has > no bylaws). Sure that's just routine maintenance but what is the value with > that maintenance? > > If we know what every individual building is (which is the ideal), what > information is conveyed by telling me that 80% or some unquantified > inexplicit percentage of buildings in a grouping are of type Industrial? > > And a lot of these polygons cover _only_ one property. Which it seems > isn't permitted by the wiki, but that also doesn't add any utility over the > building itself. > > Some examples of these nameless sections are, > > * w1101484647 by A_Prokopova_lyft > > Across the street from that one is three identical polygons by Emey_lyft > in the same place > > * w1101205150 > * w1101204670 > * w1101392713 > > In case you think that's unique, right below it Emey_lyft did it again > with three identical polygons. > > * w1101205149 > * w1101204669 > * w1101392712 > > I'm assuming the triplicating is an innocent mistake, and not an attempt > to inflate a quota. But, I just want to understand what is the use case for > highlighting *everything on the border of every major highway and primary > road* with "Retail Area" even without triplicating. > > Moreover, with polygons like w1096234140, how is that useful when you lump > in one motel and three buildings which OSM has *no information about* as a > "Commercial Area"? Likewise, how is w1096234140 a "Retail Area" it covers > 12 buildings and we only know one is a Post Office, the other is a Dunken > Donuts, and "Houston Skate and Dance" exists somewhere inside it? > > None of this is relevant to any areas WITH names: I'm all for these. IE, > "Braeswood Squre", or "Meyer Park". Those "Areas" have a name which is > useful to the community and the sign is visible for the retail campus, but > seems most of Lyft's contributions are nameless (all of the ones I've seen) > .They seem to be outsourcing what could otherwise be done more correctly > with better data, automatically: if we know what each business is inside > the polygon, we can create effective "Areas" using spatial clustering. > > Should we better define when these areas should be used and not used? Can > Lyft tell us what the business case is for funding these contributions to > OSM? How are they used to create value to our users? > > (This is not a call out, and I want no part of any corrective action on > the two people mentioned. I'm only looking to provide concrete examples so > we can better draft policy.) > > -- > In the event this email pertains to Real Estate, Texas law > <https://texreg.sos.state.tx.us/public/readtac$ext.TacPage?sl=R&app=9&p_dir=&p_rloc=&p_tloc=&p_ploc=&pg=1&p_tac=&ti=22&pt=23&ch=531&rl=20> > requires all license holders provide to prospective clients the following > forms: Information About Brokerage Services > <http://docs.evancarroll.com/realestate/iabs.pdf>, Consumer Protection > Notice > <https://www.trec.texas.gov/sites/default/files/pdf-forms/CN%201-2.pdf>. > My TREC license number is 610570 > <https://www.trec.texas.gov/apps/license-holder-search/?detail_id=881377951> > and my sponsoring broker is NB Elite Realty LLC. > > -- > Evan Carroll - [email protected] > System Lord of the Internets > web: http://www.evancarroll.com > ph: 281.901.0011 <+1-281-901-0011> > > > -- In the event this email pertains to Real Estate, Texas law <https://texreg.sos.state.tx.us/public/readtac$ext.TacPage?sl=R&app=9&p_dir=&p_rloc=&p_tloc=&p_ploc=&pg=1&p_tac=&ti=22&pt=23&ch=531&rl=20> requires all license holders provide to prospective clients the following forms: Information About Brokerage Services <http://docs.evancarroll.com/realestate/iabs.pdf>, Consumer Protection Notice <https://www.trec.texas.gov/sites/default/files/pdf-forms/CN%201-2.pdf>. My TREC license number is 610570 <https://www.trec.texas.gov/apps/license-holder-search/?detail_id=881377951> and my sponsoring broker is NB Elite Realty LLC. -- Evan Carroll - [email protected] System Lord of the Internets web: http://www.evancarroll.com ph: 281.901.0011 <+1-281-901-0011>
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