The `ref=*` tag is an identification number that is assigned to any given road 
since it’s being created by the local governments. The "official meaning” of a 
`ref=*` is: the road built from 'point A' to 'point B’ and this is how they are 
formally identified by the government entities and even the everyday users. The 
`ref=*` also may help identify a main primary road from secondary or other 
minor roads, based on this denomination alone.

This remains true even in the US, where roads carry a `ref=*` that identifies 
them. I lived some time in Houston, Texas while attending college, where there 
was a “Katy Freeway” which was its “in-town” name, but remaining a part of the 
`ref=I-10`. I-10 aka Interstate 10 runs East to West, coast to coast, from 
Florida to California, crossing through all the Southern states in between. 
Every Interstate Highway in the US has a `ref=*`. And it is no secret that all 
Interstate Highways which `ref=*` numbers ends with a “0” run North to South, 
while all Interstate Highways which `ref=*` numbers ends with a “5” run East to 
West.

Years later, after traveling around the world to almost all continents, the 
`ref=*` is something actually seen on many roads in most countries (I do not 
recall anywhere in particular in which there were no `ref=*` seen on road 
signs. Many countries actually refer to the roads by their `ref=*` only, and 
may not necessarily carry any other given name.  In real life, just by seeing 
the `ref=*` sign pop-up on the map also helps to quickly find the road to 
follow, without having to rely on a relation to find the specific route being 
followed when crossing through cities or towns, where the roads carry other 
“in-town” names. Relations on OSM tend to be frequently broken, mostly 
unknowingly by editors who may have not even noticed their existence. For 
anyone driving while following a route from “point A” to “point B” having a 
segment of the route (ref=*) suddenly disappear due to some editor’s doings on 
a relation could cause much confusion at any moment, to say the least...

IMO, to deprecate this tag would cause more harm than any good. It’s a simple 
tag, easy to enter and easy to follow as it currently appears on OSM. I am 
opposed to this tag being deprecated from OSM. I do not see much benefit in 
doing so, but do see much harm.



> On Jun 2, 2025, at 4:58 PM, Paul Johnson <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Jun 2, 2025 at 7:07 AM Greg Troxel <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>> António Madeira via Tagging <[email protected] 
>> <mailto:[email protected]>> writes:
>> 
>> > What I meant is that even if that "ref=49" is wrongly associated to
>> 
>> It does seem like someone is adding incorrect refs based on a
>> misunderstanding, and it would be good to have that resolved.  People
>> with strong opinions doing wrong things and the db ending up that way is
>> an unfortunate part of OSM, but comes with the good parts of evolving
>> tagging.
> 
> It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to start formally deprecating ref=* on 
> ways.  Ref to describe routes on ways violates the "one object, one OSM 
> entity guideline," and is one of the reasons relations were created as a 
> primitive in OSM in the first place.  If the ref=* on ways dinosaur was 
> allowed to die the death it should have 15 years ago.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Tagging mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[email protected]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Reply via email to