On 5/13/2016 9:22 PM, cleary wrote:
I agree that there is a need to improve our classification of places.
However I think that taking population as the sole criterion will
create more discrepancies than we have already.
I think of it as a guide. In fact most of the OSM wiki to me is a guide.
For example, I live in a Sydney suburb that has a population greater
than the gazetted "state suburb" of Sydney (roughly the CBD area). If
we adopted a strictly population-based criterion, my suburb and many
others with more than 10,000 people would be "towns" in OSM and Sydney
CBD be a "town". My suburb has about the same population as the rural
city of Griffith, NSW. I think Griffith is a city but my suburb is not.
Yep. I take your point. Closer to home is Penrith .. a city or a suburb
of Sydney?
I won't keep going on and on, but there are many questions thrown up
by relying on population alone as the criterion for determining if a
place is a city or town or whatever. I think it has to be a sort of
"common sense" decision taking population into account but other
factors as well. But I do support the need to try to clarify our
classifications and appreciate the difficulty in resolving the issue.
A start on the classification by features? Warning .. draft only!
A city at a minimum has;
one hospital with emergency services
more than one police station
more than one public library
more than one secondary school
a university
more than one doctor's practice
more than one petrol station
more than one bank
more than one ATM
more than one Post Office
A town at a minimum has;
a hospital
a police station
a public library
a secondary school
a doctor's practice
a newsagent
a petrol station
a bank
a Post Office
A village at a minimum has;
a convenience store
On Fri, May 13, 2016, at 07:11 PM, Warin wrote:
On 5/13/2016 11:36 AM, Warin wrote:
On 5/6/2016 9:51 AM, Simon Slater wrote:
On Thu, 5 May 2016 10:10:35 AM Ian Sergeant wrote:
1. Any attempt to make something render on sparse parts of the map, is
a rendering issue. Any renderer is free to pre-process the data based
on a population and remoteness algorithm if they wish.
2. Personally, I make anything a town if it has services. If it has a
pub, a take-away, a supermarket, a post-office, and a fuel station,
then it's a town. I save hamlet for a population grouping without any
services, and a locality for a place where there is essentially no
population clustering. This is a natural skew towards remoter
destinations becoming towns, because they are service towns for
surrounding areas, rather than necessarily having large populations
themselves.
Post offices may be a good guide. 25 years ago there were at least 4 post
offices
between here (Swan Hill) and Kerang. Now there is only one at Lake Boga, but
all the other post codes are still in place, mail routing through either
Kerang or Swan Hill.
Australia post has;
*
Post Office (PO) and
*
Local Post Office (LPO)
The LPO is usually smaller and within another business ..usually a local
convenience store.
The ABS has this
http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/2f762f95845417aeca25706c00834efa/1d90c1ef4ac928d5ca2570ec0018e4f7!OpenDocument
<http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/2f762f95845417aeca25706c00834efa/1d90c1ef4ac928d5ca2570ec0018e4f7%21OpenDocument>
"*Identifying towns*
In this review *small towns*have been defined as population centres with between
1,000 and 19,999 people. Towns might ideally be distinguished from
cities and from smaller rural communities according to functional
criteria, such as the presence or absence of various educational,
medical, recreational and retail services, together perhaps with
administrative criteria such as whether or not a city or town
council operated from within the town. While such conceptual
distinctions might be made, it is difficult to put such definitions
into practice. The above population size was therefore considered
the most suitable alternative which would generally encompass these
criteria."
I tend to concur with this - simplest to implement and verify. I do
note the 'medical' services that ABS have for identifying towns etc,
that may be a usefull criteria in addition to number of pubs, petrol
stations etc.
I have gotten some 1,400 'towns from the OSM data base .. many of these have no
population given, but from those that do;
Penrith 178465
Bunbury 64385
Maitland 61431
Palmerston 46618
Melton 45624
Port Macquarie 41723
Sunbury 33062
Pakenham 32911
Nowra 32556
Albany 30656
Devonport 29051
Goulburn 21484
Busselton 21407
Ocean Grove 16093
Bacchus Marsh 14913
Port Hedland 13772
Torquay 13339
Coolum Beach 13154
Broome 12766
Batemans Bay 12000
Lara 11192
Drysdale 10927
Compare this to the 'cities';
Charters Towers 8,234
Charleville 4,700
Caloundra 3,550
Winton 1,337
Winton and Charleville 'cities' when Broome is not? No .. sorry that makes no
sense, even when taking into account 'remoteness' and services.
And the other end of 'towns';
Marble Bar 194
Coral Bay 190
Coorow 176
Guilderton 146
Marvel Loch 98
Popanyinning 87
Betoota 0
Ooldea 0
Ooldea used to have a hermit, he could still be kicking ... the others there
were railway workers with homes elsewhere.
Betoota used to have 1, but he died.
I don't think anyone could call these 'towns'! Even on a 'services' scale.
_There is a clear disparity here. _
I hope to get all the 'towns' populations that are missing entered from the ABS
census 2011, and then look again at these 'towns'.
I have entered all the 'cities' population data that was missing, so that bit
is done.
I am yet to get the villages list, if I do!
-----------------------
As a reminder of what I first proposed
OSM wiki presently has by population
city>100,000>town>10,000>village>200>hamlet>100
__I think for Australia;
city>10,000>town>1,000>village>100>hamlet>10
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