Paul, So once we get a letter from the City of Ottawa, are we good to add the buildings as per the wiki?
John On Sun, Jan 22, 2017 at 8:41 AM, john whelan <[email protected]> wrote: > There is another way forward for Stats at the moment and that would be to > use the Statistics Canada address file which is available on the Federal > Government Open Data portal under the Federal Government Open Data > licence. The addresses are nodes rather than building outlines but there > is nothing to stop building:levels, and postcode etc. being added to a node. > > This was the file that Metrolink used to add addresses in the Toronto > area. It also has the benefit that it uses less storage in the OSM > database. > > Cheerio John > > On 21 January 2017 at 21:34, john whelan <[email protected]> wrote: > >> It's to do with the way government works and is structured. What you >> have is an official interpretation which carries weight. Quite a lot of >> weight. >> >> Essentially both Canada and the UK are run by acts of parliament. >> However these are normally interpreted by civil servants to keep things >> running smoothly. For example in the UK by an Act of parliament of 1837 >> bicycles are not permitted to use the sidewalks but administratively you >> will not be prosecuted for cycling on the sidewalk in certain parts of the >> UK. The act hasn't been repealed but it is simply not enforced. The >> decision was taken by a civil servant after consultations but is upheld by >> the government. >> >> The day to day running is done by civil servants interpreting the >> minister's wishes or act of Parliament. There will be discussion and >> debate at a greater depth than either a minister or Parliament have the >> time for and the decision will be recorded together with the reasons for >> and against it. This can lead to a formal report with a recommendation. >> It is a brave manager or minister who doesn't accept the recommendations. >> Have a look at Yes Minister and you'll see that brave here means foolish. >> There has to be a level of trust between the politicians and the civil >> service for this to work. The direction is set by the politicians but the >> day to day stuff by the civil servants. If a civil servant screws up then >> its special assignment time which is the civil service way of terminating >> you. So an interpretation is not given lightly. >> >> It has taken three or four years of discussion to get this far. My >> understanding is the City of Ottawa licence actually makes reference to the >> Federal government licence in the FAQ basically because all the expertise, >> hard work and effort on licensing was done at the federal level. >> >> I think in this case you have to rely on civil servants and retired civil >> servants expertise. Both Bjenk and I are of the opinion, as his his >> manager, that for practical purposes the OGL-CA and the Municipal >> equivalent are identical. There are a number of CANVEC employees and >> retired employees floating around as well who will have an opinion but I >> think it will be supportive. The open data manager at Ottawa is also of >> the same opinion. My casual contacts at TB on the Open Data side are also >> of the same opinion. >> >> My hope is that we can accept Open Data from municipalities that are >> covered by the equivalent of the OGL-CA. What you seem to be asking for is >> a resolution or vote by each municipality of their councillors before OSM >> can use the data. This I think is getting towards the unreasonable and >> unwieldy side of things. >> >> Canadian cities would like to encourage their citizens to walk, cycle and >> use public transport. Tagging which paths maybe used by cycles helps both >> sides. In Ottawa until I sat down with the cycling specialist and pointed >> out on their cycle maps one path running through a park was on their cycle >> maps and an identical one in the same park wasn't so how was I to know >> which could be used? I was armed with photos from both paths and of the >> signs, they were identical. After that the city expanded its official >> cycle path network by many kms. "The *city of Ottawa* has a vibrant >> *cycling* culture and now boasts over 600 km of multi-use pathways, >> *bike* lanes, off-road paths and paved shoulders" We need the City to >> identify these so they can be correctly tagged on the map. Often there are >> no signs on a path to say if it maybe used by cyclists or not. >> >> Metrolink has done a fair bit of address mapping in OSM in support of >> getting people to use public transport. They're in Toronto by the way. >> Both sides are better off with imported bus stops. >> >> Life was so much simpler when OSM was just a group of cyclists going >> round with GPS devices recording tracks but I think times are changing and >> there are benefits. The main problem in my mind is controlling the quality >> of data for an import and in its careful merging with existing data. For >> the City of Ottawa data the quality is reasonably good and some of it is >> already present in the CANVEC data. The GTFS bus stop position data is far >> better than many American cities because of the automated stop announcement >> system to assist blind or partially sighted people. They went out and very >> carefully checked the position of each and every bus stop with a high >> accuracy GPS system so it would be correct. >> >> There is another issue and that is volume of data. If you are using OSM >> data on a phone off line the smaller the database the faster it is but that >> is a different kettle of fish. At least if its there you can filter out >> those things you don't need. >> >> My suggestion is both the OGL-CA and the municipality equivalent should >> be acceptable to OSM based on the interpretations you have from civil >> servants. >> >> Cheerio John >> >> >> >> >> On 21 January 2017 at 19:37, Paul Norman <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> On 1/21/2017 4:34 PM, john whelan wrote: >>> >>>> What you have is an interpretation of the Federal Government license. >>>> From my background in the civil service my understanding is for a statement >>>> it would have to be over a minister's signature or by act of parliament. >>>> No one else has the authority unless it is delegated. >>>> >>> >>> If that's true and we can't rely on a statement from a government >>> employee to interpret their license, then we can no longer use OGL-CA data. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Talk-ca mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca >>> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Talk-ca mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca > >
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