Depends on the situation, most often this is former gardening. In that case, I would suggest taking advantage addr:neighbourhood
вт, 24 сент. 2019 г. в 23:47, <[email protected]>: > Send Talk-ee mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ee > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Talk-ee digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Maa-amet Tase 6 (maaüksuse nimi) – addr:place või > addr:housename? (SviMik) > 2. Re: Maa-amet Tase 6 (maaüksuse nimi) – addr:place või > addr:housename? (Jaak Laineste) > 3. Re: verbatium buiding import discussion (Jaak Laineste) > 4. Re: verbatium buiding import discussion (SviMik) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 17:51:48 +0300 > From: SviMik <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: [Talk-ee] Maa-amet Tase 6 (maaüksuse nimi) – addr:place > või addr:housename? > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Hi all, > > I have a tagging puzzle here. Maa-amet classifies address parts in the > following way: > > Tase 3 – asustusüksus ja linnaosa > Tase 4 – väikekoht > Tase 5 – liikluspind (tänav) > Tase 6 – maaüksuse nimi > Tase 7 – aadressi number > > The problem is, that many buildings in Estonia do not have Tase 5 (street > name), but instead have Tase 6 (lot name) and may or may not have Tase 7 > (housenumber) at the same time. > > According to OSM wiki, addr:place is "part of an address which refers to > the name of some territorial zone". > Looks perfect so far, "the name of some territorial zone" is literally > "maaüksuse nimi". > But... > 1. addr:place requires place=* node or area to be mapped too, which is not > really doable for every land lot. > 2. I'm already using addr:place for Tase 4 (väikekoht, aiandusühistu, etc) > which fits better for this role. > > We could use addr:housename for this instead. > Indeed, Tase 6 is often used as a replacement for the street+number > scheme, and in most cases is literally the property name. > But... > 1. Sometimes Tase 6 comes with Tase 7 (housenumber). I'm not sure if > addr:housename can be used together with addr:housenumber, the > addr:housename sounds like it must be the final address part. > > Examples with house number: > > Harju maakond;Kuusalu vald;Leesi küla;Kasemäe;1 > Harju maakond;Kuusalu vald;Leesi küla;Kasemäe;2 > - here Kasemäe is tase6, not street (tase5), but it still uses house > numbering. This example looks like addr:place. > > Lääne-Viru maakond;Kadrina vald;Arbavere küla;Palkoja baas > Harju maakond;Kuusalu vald;Vihasoo küla;Pumbamaja > Harju maakond;Anija vald;Härmakosu küla;Härmakosu tehnopark > - here the last part is tase6 too. They don't have house numbers, and > these examles do look like addr:housename. > > So, the questions is: where exactly do I put the Maa-amet "Tase 6" address > part in OSM tagging scheme? > And is it OK to use addr:housename together with addr:housenumber? > > -- > SviMik > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 18:16:23 +0300 > From: Jaak Laineste <[email protected]> > To: SviMik <[email protected]>, OpenStreetMap Estonia > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Talk-ee] Maa-amet Tase 6 (maaüksuse nimi) – > addr:place või addr:housename? > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > > There is a wiki page: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Et:Key:addr ., > I think it is basically tase 5: housename, tase 6: housenumber if I get the > question right. > > Feel free to enhance the wiki page, not everyone reads talk-ee, but wiki > is more official doc :) > > > Jaak > > > > On 24 Sep 2019, at 17:51, SviMik via Talk-ee <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > I have a tagging puzzle here. Maa-amet classifies address parts in the > following way: > > > > Tase 3 – asustusüksus ja linnaosa > > Tase 4 – väikekoht > > Tase 5 – liikluspind (tänav) > > Tase 6 – maaüksuse nimi > > Tase 7 – aadressi number > > > > The problem is, that many buildings in Estonia do not have Tase 5 > (street name), but instead have Tase 6 (lot name) and may or may not have > Tase 7 (housenumber) at the same time. > > > > According to OSM wiki, addr:place is "part of an address which refers to > the name of some territorial zone". > > Looks perfect so far, "the name of some territorial zone" is literally > "maaüksuse nimi". > > But... > > 1. addr:place requires place=* node or area to be mapped too, which is > not really doable for every land lot. > > 2. I'm already using addr:place for Tase 4 (väikekoht, aiandusühistu, > etc) which fits better for this role. > > > > We could use addr:housename for this instead. > > Indeed, Tase 6 is often used as a replacement for the street+number > scheme, and in most cases is literally the property name. > > But... > > 1. Sometimes Tase 6 comes with Tase 7 (housenumber). I'm not sure if > addr:housename can be used together with addr:housenumber, the > addr:housename sounds like it must be the final address part. > > > > Examples with house number: > > > > Harju maakond;Kuusalu vald;Leesi küla;Kasemäe;1 > > Harju maakond;Kuusalu vald;Leesi küla;Kasemäe;2 > > - here Kasemäe is tase6, not street (tase5), but it still uses house > numbering. This example looks like addr:place. > > > > Lääne-Viru maakond;Kadrina vald;Arbavere küla;Palkoja baas > > Harju maakond;Kuusalu vald;Vihasoo küla;Pumbamaja > > Harju maakond;Anija vald;Härmakosu küla;Härmakosu tehnopark > > - here the last part is tase6 too. They don't have house numbers, and > these examles do look like addr:housename. > > > > So, the questions is: where exactly do I put the Maa-amet "Tase 6" > address part in OSM tagging scheme? > > And is it OK to use addr:housename together with addr:housenumber? > > > > -- > > SviMik > > _______________________________________________ > > Talk-ee mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ee > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 22:08:08 +0300 > From: Jaak Laineste <[email protected]> > To: SviMik <[email protected]> > Cc: OpenStreetMap Estonia <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Talk-ee] verbatium buiding import discussion > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > > These txt reports with IDs are not too visual, can you create any > renderable file for josm (.osm for example) or screenshot to show the > community what it really means? Are the building under question random or > somehow in specific areas etc. I dont know if there is any "test osm > server” for such experiments nowadays somewhere, probably not. > > Jaak > > > On 24 Sep 2019, at 07:50, SviMik <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > I have analyzed the largest verbatium's import (changesets 591093, > 579407, 572107, 569277, 569055 (ways) + 561094, 559707, 558636, 558056, > 557568, 557358, 557193, 556899 (nodes only)), which was made in 2008. That > covers 86.7% of all his edits. > > The import was covering Tallinn, Saue and Maardu. Turned out verbatium > wasn't particulary active outside Harjumaa. > > There were total 67813 ways imported, 9032 of them are already deleted > by other editors, and 17878 were changed either in geometry or tags* > department (15529 has a geometry change, and 5077 has a tag change), which > leaves 40903 buildings for deletion. > > * I did not count the following tags because they are part of my imports > anyway: addr:city, addr:country, addr:housenumber, addr:street, > maaamet:ETAK, maaamet:orig_tunnus, source, source:addr, addr2:* > > * If some change was reverted I do not count it as a change, because I > only compare the first and the last version > > > > Here is the list of ways for deletion: > > http://svimik.com/verbatium_import1_ways_unchanged1.txt > > > > Here is the full report for all the 67813 ways: > > http://svimik.com/verbatium_import1_ways1.csv > > > > Full list of his changesets: > > http://svimik.com/verbatium_changesets.xls > > > > Currently, the bbox of his changesets has 91324 buildings, which > means... We're gonna delete 44.79% of Saue-Tallinn-Maardu buildings. That > gonna be interesting. Should we split it by 10k for example? Or just start > with Maardu and see what happens? > > > > > > Воскресенье, 15 сентября 2019, 9:42 +03:00 от "Jaak Laineste" < > [email protected]>: > >> Hoi, > >> > >> Jah, need peaks kustutama. Enne võiks teha muudatuse analüüsi - kui > palju ja > >> kus kustutataks, ega mõned linnad kohe väga tühjaks ei jää. > >> > >> Jaak > >> > >> p.s. sama asi ka corine impordi osade tag-idega, näiteks põllud > (field), need > >> on pigem müra kui info kaardil. > >> > >> > >> > >>> On 14 Sep 2019, at 15:34, SviMik via Talk-ee < > [email protected]> > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi everyone! > >>> > >>> I'd like to discuss the import made by verbatium in 2008: > >>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/569055 > >>> (...and other similar changesets) > >>> > >>> There are two issues with that import: > >>> 1. Unknown data source with unknown license (probably it was a Garmin > map > >> judging by the Type=0x13 tag) > >>> 2. Poor quality of the data. If you see a building distorted like this: > >> http://svimik.com/verbatiumimport1.png > >>> - you can be sure it's verbatium's. Maybe it was OK in 2008, but in > 2019 we > >> have much better options. > >>> > >>> What can be done: > >>> 1. Remove all buildings which geometry and tags were not edited since > the > >> initial import. For the tags the following exceptions can be made > because they > >> were automatic edits: > >>> - User xybot has fixed the tag typo (buildung=yes) in the initial > import and > >> added its own tag (created_by=xybot) > >>> - User juhanjuku has removed the Type=0x13 and created_by=xybot tags > >>> - User SviMik_import has imported the address tags to these buildings > from > >> the Maa-amet database (nothing that can't be imported again) > >>> 2. Proceed with the Maa-amet building import as usual > >>> > >>> It will solve: > >>> 1. The license issue (if there is any) > >>> 2. The quality issue (if you agree there is an issue) > >>> 3. Will update the map in general, for example the demolished > buildings will > >> be removed from OSM. > >>> > >>> For buildings which geometry was changed by other contributors after > the > >> initial import - we can assume both license and quality issues were > solved > >> since they no longer contain the imported geometry. I know it's a grey > field, > >> and I'm not sure it works like that, but at least these buildings do > have some > >> excuse to stay. > >>> > >>> For buildings which geometry was NOT changed, but some POI tags were > added - > >> let them stay for now and discuss it later if needed. I suspect it will > be a > >> rare case, but the exact number is unknown right now. > >>> > >>> Questions: > >>> 1. Has anyone else digged into the issue, maybe asked verbatium > himself? > >>> 2. Can anyone confirm that the import indeed has the license problem? > >>> 3. Is the proposed plan good? (in case if you agree that it needs to be > >> fixed) > >>> > >>> -- > >>> SviMik > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Talk-ee mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ee > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > Svjatoslav Mikhailov > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 23:46:36 +0300 > From: SviMik <[email protected]> > To: Jaak Laineste <[email protected]> > Cc: OpenStreetMap Estonia <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Talk-ee] verbatium buiding import discussion > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > http://svimik.com/verbatiumimportmap1.png > Here's the screenshot. Not precise, but gives some idea. > 40903 buildings is a bit too much for JOSM. > > > Вторник, 24 сентября 2019, 22:08 +03:00 от "Jaak Laineste" < > [email protected]>: > > > > These txt reports with IDs are not too visual, can you create any > renderable > > file for josm (.osm for example) or screenshot to show the community > what it > > really means? Are the building under question random or somehow in > specific > > areas etc. I dont know if there is any "test osm server” for such > experiments > > nowadays somewhere, probably not. > > > > Jaak > > > > > On 24 Sep 2019, at 07:50, SviMik <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > I have analyzed the largest verbatium's import (changesets 591093, > 579407, > > 572107, 569277, 569055 (ways) + 561094, 559707, 558636, 558056, 557568, > > 557358, 557193, 556899 (nodes only)), which was made in 2008. That covers > > 86.7% of all his edits. > > > The import was covering Tallinn, Saue and Maardu. Turned out verbatium > > wasn't particulary active outside Harjumaa. > > > There were total 67813 ways imported, 9032 of them are already deleted > by > > other editors, and 17878 were changed either in geometry or tags* > department > > (15529 has a geometry change, and 5077 has a tag change), which leaves > 40903 > > buildings for deletion. > > > * I did not count the following tags because they are part of my > imports > > anyway: addr:city, addr:country, addr:housenumber, addr:street, > maaamet:ETAK, > > maaamet:orig_tunnus, source, source:addr, addr2:* > > > * If some change was reverted I do not count it as a change, because I > only > > compare the first and the last version > > > > > > Here is the list of ways for deletion: > > > http://svimik.com/verbatium_import1_ways_unchanged1.txt > > > > > > Here is the full report for all the 67813 ways: > > > http://svimik.com/verbatium_import1_ways1.csv > > > > > > Full list of his changesets: > > > http://svimik.com/verbatium_changesets.xls > > > > > > Currently, the bbox of his changesets has 91324 buildings, which > means... > > We're gonna delete 44.79% of Saue-Tallinn-Maardu buildings. That gonna be > > interesting. Should we split it by 10k for example? Or just start with > Maardu > > and see what happens? > > > > > > > > > Воскресенье, 15 сентября 2019, 9:42 +03:00 от "Jaak Laineste" > > <[email protected]>: > > >> Hoi, > > >> > > >> Jah, need peaks kustutama. Enne võiks teha muudatuse analüüsi - kui > palju > > ja > > >> kus kustutataks, ega mõned linnad kohe väga tühjaks ei jää. > > >> > > >> Jaak > > >> > > >> p.s. sama asi ka corine impordi osade tag-idega, näiteks põllud > (field), > > need > > >> on pigem müra kui info kaardil. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>> On 14 Sep 2019, at 15:34, SviMik via Talk-ee < > [email protected]> > > >> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> Hi everyone! > > >>> > > >>> I'd like to discuss the import made by verbatium in 2008: > > >>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/569055 > > >>> (...and other similar changesets) > > >>> > > >>> There are two issues with that import: > > >>> 1. Unknown data source with unknown license (probably it was a > Garmin map > > >> judging by the Type=0x13 tag) > > >>> 2. Poor quality of the data. If you see a building distorted like > this: > > >> http://svimik.com/verbatiumimport1.png > > >>> - you can be sure it's verbatium's. Maybe it was OK in 2008, but in > 2019 > > we > > >> have much better options. > > >>> > > >>> What can be done: > > >>> 1. Remove all buildings which geometry and tags were not edited > since the > > >> initial import. For the tags the following exceptions can be made > because > > they > > >> were automatic edits: > > >>> - User xybot has fixed the tag typo (buildung=yes) in the initial > import > > and > > >> added its own tag (created_by=xybot) > > >>> - User juhanjuku has removed the Type=0x13 and created_by=xybot tags > > >>> - User SviMik_import has imported the address tags to these > buildings from > > >> the Maa-amet database (nothing that can't be imported again) > > >>> 2. Proceed with the Maa-amet building import as usual > > >>> > > >>> It will solve: > > >>> 1. The license issue (if there is any) > > >>> 2. The quality issue (if you agree there is an issue) > > >>> 3. Will update the map in general, for example the demolished > buildings > > will > > >> be removed from OSM. > > >>> > > >>> For buildings which geometry was changed by other contributors after > the > > >> initial import - we can assume both license and quality issues were > solved > > >> since they no longer contain the imported geometry. I know it's a grey > > field, > > >> and I'm not sure it works like that, but at least these buildings do > have > > some > > >> excuse to stay. > > >>> > > >>> For buildings which geometry was NOT changed, but some POI tags were > added > > - > > >> let them stay for now and discuss it later if needed. I suspect it > will be > > a > > >> rare case, but the exact number is unknown right now. > > >>> > > >>> Questions: > > >>> 1. Has anyone else digged into the issue, maybe asked verbatium > himself? > > >>> 2. Can anyone confirm that the import indeed has the license problem? > > >>> 3. Is the proposed plan good? (in case if you agree that it needs to > be > > >> fixed) > > >>> > > >>> -- > > >>> SviMik > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> Talk-ee mailing list > > >>> [email protected] > > >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ee > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Talk-ee mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ee > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Talk-ee Digest, Vol 95, Issue 7 > ************************************** >
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