On 2020-12-21 13:01, Alan Mackie wrote:
> I struggle with what to call the <BuildingName> in that example.
>
> A recent suggestion for named terraces was to use addr:street=<TerraceName>
> and addr:parentstreet=<StreetName>, but if the <HouseNumber> relates the
> whole building to to parentstreet, then reconstructing an address seems
> impossible.
>
> The closest existing tag seems to be add:housename=<BuildingName>, but I
> don't know if that stretches the definition too much.
That will cause problems if the constituent parts (flats, houses in a
terrace etc) have a "name" instead of a number. Royal Mail say that a
house number must be numeric, and anything else (like Rose Cottage, 7A,
3-7, 11/13 etc) should go in the house name field. The OSM Wiki allows
non-numeric values though for some cases.
> On Mon, 21 Dec 2020 at 06:41, Peter Neale via Talk-GB
> <talk-gb@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>
>> At the risk of throwing another edge case into the pot (and mixing
>> metaphors), can I ask how I should tag our flat?
>>
>> The Post Office Official postcode checker renders it as:
>>
>> Flat <FlatNumber>
>> <BuildingName>
>> <HouseNumber> <Street Name>
>> <POSTTOWN>
>> <POSTCODE>
>>
>> where <HouseNumber> refers to the whole block and is common to all the
>> flats.
>>
>> I cannot see what the Post Office is calling the various data fields, but I
>> assume OSM would be happy with (taking elements from above)
>>
>> addr:housenumber=<HouseNumber>
>>
>> addr:street=<StreetName>
>> addr:city=<POSTTOWN>
>> addr:postcode=<POSTCODE>
>>
>> That just leaves me to deal with the "Flat" element.
>>
>> Consulting the Wiki, I THINK I can cover that with:
>>
>> add:flats=<FlatNumber> (for one specific flat)
>>
>> ...or addr:flats=<FlatNumberRange> (for the whole block)
>>
>> However, I unsure whether to include the word "Flat" in the value field of
>> "addr:flats=*", or not. The Wiki page for Key:addr includes, as an example,
>> "addr:flats=Suite 110A", which seems fine for a single living space unit.
>> It could be called "Flat 110A", "Suite 110A", "Apartment 110A", etc., so
>> including the descriptor word could be useful to the data consumer.
>> However, the Wiki page for Key:addr:flats shows only numeric values.
>>
>> TagInfo shows 203.5k uses of "addr:flats", but only 38 uses of
>> "addr:flats=*flat*" and 42 uses of "addr:flats=*suite*", again suggesting
>> that only the unique value(s) (e.g. "1", "2", "13B", etc.) are sufficiently
>> used to warrant data consumers catering for them.
>>
>> So, should I omit the word "Flat", "Suite", "Apartment" etc., leaving the
>> data consumer to guess (or to default to "Flat...")?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Peter
>>
>> On Monday, 21 December 2020, 09:30:37 GMT, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists)
>> <robert.whittaker+...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Like it or not, in the UK addresses are defined by Royal Mail. They're
>> introduced the concept of a "postal town", and this is one of the few
>> common elements that each address must always have. Once you accept
>> that the Post Town is intended to be a nearby significant place (to
>> help with delivery routing and identifying the rough location of the
>> addressed property) rather than being a place that the address is
>> "in", then it's really no more of a fiction than the postcode. (The
>> village I grew up in had a GL postcode, despite it being in
>> Worcestershire. I've currently got an IP postcode, despite being in
>> Norfolk and closer to Norwich (NR) than Ipswich.)
>>
>> On the basis that it's a required part of each address, I would
>> recommend that we do store the post town in OSM addresses. There are
>> significant advantages to storing it in a consistent way, and the best
>> existing tag to do this would be addr:city. (We wouldn't want to
>> invent a new tag (e.g. addr:posttown), since as a UK-only term that
>> will simply be ignored by most international data consumers.
>>
>> We then have a possible hierarchy of named localities between the
>> street and the post town to record as part of the address. I would
>> suggest using appropriate values from the set {addr:hamlet,
>> addr:village, addr:town, addr:suburb}. (I don't see any other
>> alternatives to this.) Most of these key names already have a
>> reasonable number of uses in OSM (addr:town is the lowest, but that
>> still has 59k uses), so it seems that others are doing this too.
>>
>> Regarding properties (e.g. on named terraces or sub-streets), where
>> there are two street names (Thoroughfare and Dependent Throughourfare
>> in Rail Mail terminology) then we need a second key to store the other
>> street name under. Certainly if there is an addr:housenumber or
>> addr:housename, I think we need to use addr:street for the
>> street/terrace name on which that name or number applies. Otherwise,
>> software that's unaware of the second key name will think it's house
>> number n on the main street not the sub-street. There are already
>> about 3.5k uses of addr:parentstreet in OSM, so I'd recommend using
>> that for the main street, and addr:street for the terrace or
>> sub-street name. If any data-users aren't aware of addr:parentstreet
>> it's not a major issue, since it will still pick up the correct
>> terrace/sub-street name, and the locality, which will probably be
>> enough to use as an address.
>>
>> I would strongly argue against using addr2 in connection with
>> sub-streets, as it's not standardised, and is likely to not be picked
>> up by any software. There's an abondoned proposal at
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/addr2 [1], but that
>> was for the case of a single property on a street corner having two
>> formal addresses, one on each street, not for the case of two streets
>> in a hierarchy.
>>
>> Robert.
>>
>> On Sun, 20 Dec 2020 at 12:47, Dave Abbott <dave.abb...@pandaemonia.org>
>> wrote:
>>> I am trying to make sure I tag addresses correctly. I am currently
>>> trying to understand how to map in my area.
>>>
>>> The postal addresses are like:
>>>
>>> 99 Postal Street
>>> Smalltown
>>> Largertown
>>> West Yorks XY9 7GY
>>>
>>> Smalltown is geographically separate to Largertown, which however is the
>>> Postal Town. Omitting Smalltown from the address is probably correct
>>> postally-speaking, but local residents would object as Smalltown is seen
>>> as completely separate to other places under the same Postal Town.
>>>
>>> Currently tagging as -
>>> addr:housenumber=99
>>> addr:street=Postal Street
>>> addr:city=Smalltown, Largertown
>>>
>>> But I am pretty sure this is wrong.
>>>
>>> There is a page at
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Rjw62/UK_Address_Mapping [2]which
>>> mentions "suggested tags" but there is no evidence that this is in use.
>>> If correct I would be tagging as -
>>>
>>> addr:housenumber=99
>>> addr:street=Postal Street
>>> addr:town=Smalltown
>>> addr:city=Largertown
>>>
>>> Hoping someone can advise me as to the correct way to tag for the UK...
>>>
>>> Dave Abbott (OSM user DaveyPorcy)
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Talk-GB mailing list
>>> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>>
>> --
>> Robert Whittaker
>>
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Links:
------
[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/addr2
[2] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Rjw62/UK_Address_Mapping_______________________________________________
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