Hi Mawutor and TomTom,
My comments are not meant to be in anyway harsh towards any person or
group of persons. Unfortunately, I only tell about the reality of the
results of such mapping campaigns which tend reside in OSM for who knows
how long. It is ok to know that some communication have been done with
the community in Ghana but where is this publicly? Any OSM wiki page or
discussions? I am afraid to say if some regulation say roads in urban
areas are eg. 30 km/h doesn't mean we should assume and map all roads
with 30 km/h, even if there are no existing street signs or on roads
that lead nowhere. How do other mappers verify these contributions?
I must say issues need not arise always, most of them can be easily and
should be avoided. We can make OpenStreetMap better if these kinds of
mapping are discussed in the wider community, well documented, avoided
or corrected in their early stages.
Unfortunately, the references you shared are not accessible.
Best,
Enock
On 04.11.24 17:38, Stephen Mawutor Donkor wrote:
Thank you, Enock, for sharing the reference links; they will be
valuable in expanding on the ongoing investigation of the speed limit
data collection conducted in Accra by the TomTom Team.
I'd like to add that the TomTom Team didn't carry out this project
independently; they engaged closely with our community. The project
involved selected members of the YouthMappers community in Ghana,
though participation was limited to fewer than 20 trained individuals
who contributed to the mapping, for your information this campaign was
excluded of newbies; as you mentioned other wise. one needed to be an
intermediate or advance mapper to join the team.
Some issues have already been flagged, and Tomtom is/are exploring
ways to addressing them.
We’ve noticed instances where some participants didn’t refer to
Mapillary road sign data from our closing conversations, and in other
cases, certain speed limits recorded did not align with the reference
standards we were using.
While I feel that some feedback has been a bit harsh, I also believe
we are all here to learn from others and our own experiences. When
mistakes happen, it’s essential to focus on constructive solutions and
use them as learning curves/opportunities for all, not just be.
Make ref to:
[Ref_1] where some of the mappers shared ground truff data just to
validate their data
[Ref_4]the mappers were taught how to use mappillary data. sadly the
data doesn't cover much. We want as much as conducting a mappillary
campaign but you guess it is as good as mine.
[Ref_2] some strange speed limits on highways
[Ref_3] when mappers were unsure about what to do brough the
conversation back to the group.
once again, thank you for your continuous interest in the quality of
data coming Ghana and in the OSM ecosystem, I would like to encourage
you to continually share your constructive feedback for the betterment
of the community and solutions to make some of these processes smoother.
thank you
Mawutor
ref_4:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Hmn7BiQnNuj-bagFPmOogFEJFsUTO6eF/view?usp=drive_link
ref_3:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/14YRssyg1a7NOxAh6G4iSKqetdxTRRkpj/view?usp=drive_link
ref_2:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1y5Qd-KbhR4a6UXHa0SryyC8uZCN2yDOz/view?usp=drive_link
ref_1:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UOQXSjyBvD0ee8Mkmum4yL2TNQ9rdU6o/view?usp=drive_link
On Mon, Nov 4, 2024 at 12:31 PM Enock Seth Nyamador via Talk-gh
<talk-gh@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
Dear Hajar and TomTom (mappers),
In reference to my comments on your maxspeed=* mapping in Accra [1].
There are multiple frightening maxspeed=* from this mapping which are
completely unverifiable. I also see roads which of course lead
nowhere
and were results of other organised mapping campaigns tagged with
maxspeed=* without any further investigation.
I would have expected that this kind of organised mapping is
discussed
publicly and documented on the OSM Wiki. As of 2024-08-23, there is
only one road in Accra on OSM with verifiable speed limit of 100 km/h
[2]. Seeing roads in dense Accra Central even with existing adjacent
verifiable maxspeed=50 tagged with higher maxspeed=90/100 [3][3a]
makes
me wonder. I have also seen lower maxspeed values where there
exist some
street-level images to validate eg. way [4] (maxspeed=30) and
Mapillary
image [5] (street sign 50).
TomTom's mapping team I believe is better aware and in the
position to
post-process all roads wherever and add whatever desired speed, see
Default speed limits [6], but outsourcing to a bunch of newbies to
add
into OSM, is not what OpenStreetMap is about.
As I have always commented on this list and elsewhere there is
just too
much useless data from many undocumented organised mapping
activities in
Ghana that needs to be deleted in the end, hence we don't want to see
new problems that will never be fixed.
The practice of setting up a series of maproulette or HOTOSM Tasking
manager instance projects and letting it fix itself is not helping
but
continues take place from multiple actors in Ghana and elsewhere.
Please kindly find the best way to undo all maxspeed=* resulting from
this organised mapping campaign without damaging existing valid ones
e.g. manually, contact DWG, etc.
1. https://maproulette.org/browse/challenges/48926
2. https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1TCn
3.
https://www.openstreetbrowser.org/#map=17/5.54911/-0.20774&basemap=osm-mapnik&categories=car_maxspeed
3a
<https://www.openstreetbrowser.org/#map=17/5.54911/-0.20774&basemap=osm-mapnik&categories=car_maxspeed3a>.
https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1TCC
4. https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/169135203/history/7
5.
https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=5.551382553813923&lng=-0.19400795959847983&z=19.9&pKey=517473239420891&focus=photo
<https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=5.551382553813923&lng=-0.19400795959847983&z=19.9&pKey=517473239420891&focus=photo>
6. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Default_speed_limits
Best,
Enock
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T: @stevdok
S: stevdok
/"Mere philosophy will not satisfy us.We cannot reach the goal by mere
words alone.Without practice, nothing can be achieved" - Sri S.
Satchidananda/
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