On 19/07/2015, Nick Burrett <[email protected]> wrote: > On 17 July 2015 at 23:08, moltonel 3x Combo <[email protected]> wrote: >> On 17/07/2015, Colm Moore <[email protected]> wrote: >>> Adding individual Eircodes shouldn't be a problem. Adding the whole >>> database >>> is another matter. Facts can't be copyrighted, databases can. >> >> And yet there's little value in mapping just a fraction of the >> Eircodes. Before starting the job, we need to make sure that we're >> leagally allowed to finish it. If we can't have all the Eircodes in >> OSM, we should have none. > > If it helps somebody locate a house, then it is of value: it is just > an alternative way of referencing a place.
We're no stranger to having partial data in OSM; we know that "partially usefull" is still "usefull", even for things that need a certain completeness level before people really start using it. What I'm talking about is the possibility of not being legally allowed to have all the Eircodes in OSM. Being "not complete yet" is very different from "can't legally go above X% completeness", and if the second case was true we should IMHO not have the data at all, because it'd be very different from OSM's usual temporary incompleteness. That said, I'm pretty sure this FUD will disappear once we get a clear statement from the PMLH. > The eircodes are of particular value where a house has no name/number > at all (which many do where I live) -- how am I supposed to find them > on OSM? I suggest using openpostcode instead. For the same number of characters, you get: * A pointer to all the houses that aren't on Eircode yet (just browse finder.eircode.ie they really aren't that rare) * A pointer to non-postal addresses, like a GAA field, a farm, a music festival, a beach, a terrain for sale, etc * A "dataset" that is immediately complete, without having to import anything to OSM, GM, OSi, TomTom, etc * No database needed, so it can work without a network connection * No license needed, so you don't have to pay 5000€ to use it at business scale * An optional checksum, so that a typo won't direct you 20km astray * A more easily remembered value, because nearby addresses share the same first characters. * The option to give a less precise location, in case you didn't want to give your exact home address when searching for social services in your area. Do not use Eircode. It has zero advantages. >> I strive to map impartially too, wether I like the place or not. But >> postcode are not the same thing, because they're not physical. We >> always think twice before adding non-physical data to OSM. And in the >> particular case of Eircode: >> * It's a list of IDs (useless on its own) created and curated by a >> private 3rd-party >> * It has an impressive list of technical flaws which make it a >> non-starter for many usecases > > Given it's a list of unique codes for all addresses across the > country, No. Due to the way it's designed, they'll forever miss some, and will be playing catchup^W^Wable to charge for updates. Imagine the fun of not having an Eircode for your property yet and needing something from an institution that *requires* an Eircode. Food for thought: Eircode is fundamentally different from every other postcode in the world because it requires such a level of constant updating. Most postcode systems define areas rather than individual points, so that they remain pretty or completely static. Oh, and Yemen uses an openpostcode-like system :) > you can use it as a primary key in a table and populate that > table with other data like a internally created routing code, loc8, > openpostcode or whatever else you like. I don't see any usecase for storing a PostCodeSystemA -> PostCodeSystemB map. If somebody gives you his address including a postcode, you store that postcode and maybe the corresponding lat/lon coordinates. If you wish (for display purposes ?) you can turn those coordinates back into OpenPostcode or generic Loc8 (but not back to Eircode unless the coordinates are spot on). Also, if you're deciding on a primary key for your database, you should make sure that the key has a value for all the objects you might want to put in your database. Eircode is the wrong choice for a primary key: by design it only points at certain type of objects, and even in its chosen field it might not be up to date and not have a value yet. > It's quite easy to > rationalise the data into something routable, usable or relevant to > ones needs. The needs can vary per organisation. I personally don't > need a sequencing system to find a house whereas the companies that do > can invent their own to suit their needs or translate to a sequencing > system that has already been designed to suite their needs. Sorry, I don't understand what you're getting at here. >> * It's brand-new, and we don't know how much real-world usage it'll get >> * Mirroring it in OSM is a huge amount of work and a lot of data >> (which will qualify as bloat if it isn't useful) > > Putting house names and numbers into OSM is also a huge amount of > work, but that hasn't stopped efforts to do that. Housenames/numbers are a sane system. They have been part of the addressing system "forever" and people actually use them. I might change my tune (to a very sad one) if a significant number of people actually use Eircode regularly. I wouldn't hesitate to map an Eircode if somebody puts it on their door the same way that they put housenumbers on their door. _______________________________________________ Talk-ie mailing list [email protected] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
