Hi, Here's a transcript of the meeting with the waypoints.ph/RPMap guys last saturday 20081018. Eugene and me attended the meeting, I think it went quite well, and further discussions on collaboration came up. The mail below details what happened and the prospects for duture partnership. Eugene, I hope I got the jist of the discussions right. Please correct where appropriate.
cheers, maning ================================ Hi, The meet-up with louie is quite interesting! I actually prepared a presentation about OSM but didn't get to present it. Anyway, louie barged me with a lot questions mostly technical about OSM. I think we (me and Eugene) were able to answer them convincingly. Here are some of my thoughts on the discussions: For one I believe OSM, RPMap and waypoints.ph have a lot in common. Driven by the desire to provide free mapping data for the Philippines, we created/participated/initiated our own mapping data project. We basically use gps traces as a basic input to our map canvass. Each mapping effort has its pros and cons. waypoints and rpmap (being older) is way ahead in terms of compiled info anf coverage, its information was centrayy maintained by a group of highly motivated mapmakers. On the otherhand, OSM (its principles of openness and its architecture) I believe can be faster and more efficient in creating new data as well as maintaining existing data. Obviously, the natural trajectory between the three projects would be collaboration and in particular data sharing. If I get this right waypoints.ph and RPMap has a number of data OSM can use: * Road network for the whole country * Lots and lots of POIs * GPS traces All these information can be imported easily (?) into OSM, however, I suggest we do the imports in stages. This is to ensure that we catch problems (both technical and social) early on. == POIs == We were able to add POIs of Metro Manila, which Jan sent me. This is documented here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/OSM_Philippines_Data_Import#POI_import_from_jklinc The basic data structure is like this: source:url: http://www.freewebs.com/phroadguide/ is_in:region: Ncr amenity: place_of_worship is_in:city: Quezon City is_in:country: Philippines garmin:description: place of worship source: jklinc name: Iglesia Ni Cristo created_by: gml2osm is_in:zip: 1100 Louie and Ed would like to add more POIs with the following conditions: 1. Each POI/waypoint should have proper credit/attribution to the person who contributed the data 2. The source url should be directed to waypoints.ph and rpmap.org I think this can be easily done when we import the POIs. We could include additional tags like this: --> "changed" source:url: http://www.waypoints.ph --> "added" contributor: juan_dela_cruz is_in:region: Ncr amenity: place_of_worship is_in:city: Quezon City is_in:country: Philippines garmin:description: place of worship source: jklinc name: Iglesia Ni Cristo created_by: gml2osm is_in:zip: 1100 One concern I see is, we need to review the previous import we made from the data given by Jan. One option is to remove all the data imported. We then import it again adding the other tags above. But I think we need to talk to Jan first. Second, I think we need to inform and get consent from individual contributors. Their contributions is for waypoints and rpmap. They might disagree in adding their contributions into OSM, especially when we talk about OSM's license ( http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0/ ) . We all know that OSM allow the use of data for commercial purposes. Some contributors might be uncomfortable with such clause. I think we should import only data from contributors that gave explicit permission. I know this would be a lot of coordinating work from your side, but I think this is the proper way of doing it. == ROADS == Before we import additional roads we also need to review whats already in OSM and in RPMap/waypoints.ph. From the overlay we did during the meeting, I see that both data (OSM and rpmap/waypoints.ph) have varying degrees of completeness in many areas. I can for certain say that the Marikina area of OSM is more complete and accurate (because I did them myself) than from rpmap/waypoints.ph. In other areas it could be the other way (especially in the provincial areas). We need to devise a minimal review scheme before uploading. == GPS TRACES == Traces is also of particular importance to OSM as a "proof of authenticity" that the data is not copied from copyrighted materials (like Googlemaps or other copyrighted maps). This would be fairly easy to import once we get permission from the contributors for reasons same as above. == OSM Philippines/waypoints.ph/RPMap community == symposium/meeting/conference Louie also floated the idea of a joint community symposium initiall scheduled on Nove 15, I personally welcome this opportunity for sharing and discussion. We need to firm up details on how to run this. == FINAL THOUGHTS == In adding the data to OSM, we have to accept the fact that OSM is a wiki; no administrator, no gate keepers, no controllers. In such an open environment imported data maybe changed, deleted, reverted. We have to relinquish our ownership on the data itself. The community now owns the data and we have to trust the community to improve it and use it for purposes they see fit (in accordance to its license of course). In summary, I think this partnership is a great benefit for both communities and the country's geospatial community as whole. I hope this is a start of flourishing and more fruitful endeavors in the future. For further discussions. cheers, maning PS. I will also send this mail to the OSM Philippine mailing list ( http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-ph ) ================================ On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 3:20 PM, maning sambale <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Eugene and others, > > Yes it will be this coming saturday. Send me your number off-list so > I can discuss it to you. We are still firming up the actual details. > I will inform the group as soon as I get some info. > > My gameplan is to: > Present an in-depth orientation about OSM (it's principles and way of > doing things) > Progress of OSM Philippines (Mike can I borrow your sides from SOTM?) > How to use JOSM and potlatch > We can also probably discuss some Philippine oriented tagging > > Any ideas? > > cheers, > maning > > > On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 8:11 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: >> Hi Maning, >> >> The meeting is this Saturday? I might be able to help you, just as long as >> can beg out from the beer-drinking, hehehe. Where did you guys meet and what >> time. Will the venue and the time be the same as well? >> >> Regards, >> Eugene >> >> >> On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 8:29 PM, Maning Sambale <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Yesterday I had a couple of beer with the waypoints.ph guys. Some of >>> them know OSM already but most are very interested on it's rapid growth >>> in the Philippines (particularly Metro Manila). >>> >>> I talked a bit about the project, it's principles and even showed a demo >>> of potlatch in action. >>> >>> Some of them questioned it's accuracy and reliability but I think I was >>> able to answer them in favor of OSM. Some of them are interested to >>> donate data and contribute. We will have another meeting (next week, >>> 20081018) for a detailed tutorial on data gathering and JOSM. >>> >>> I might need help from others in this group for the tutorials. Anyone >>> who wants to go along? >>> >>> cheers, >>> maning >>> >>> On Wed, 2008-10-08 at 22:08 +0800, maning sambale wrote: >>> > Hi, >>> > >>> > Just to keep everybody posted. I was invited by waypoints.ph >>> > maintainer ed garcia >>> > (http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/ed_waypointsdotph) to attend the >>> > waypoints eyeball. This is an informal gathering of GPS enthusiasts. >>> > They know about OSM and I hope by attending, we can encourage more >>> > contributors. >>> > >>> > We'll report here what transpired. >>> > >>> > cheers, >>> > maning >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> talk-ph mailing list >>> talk-ph@openstreetmap.org >>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph >> >> >> >> -- >> http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com >> > > > > -- > |---------|----------------------------------------------------------| > | __.-._ |"Ohhh. Great warrior. Wars not make one great." -Yoda | > | '-._"7' |"Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden| > | /'.-c |Linux registered user #402901, http://counter.li.org/ | > | | /T |http://esambale.wikispaces.com| > | _)_/LI > |---------|----------------------------------------------------------| > -- |---------|----------------------------------------------------------| | __.-._ |"Ohhh. Great warrior. Wars not make one great." -Yoda | | '-._"7' |"Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden| | /'.-c |Linux registered user #402901, http://counter.li.org/ | | | /T |http://esambale.wikispaces.com| | _)_/LI |---------|----------------------------------------------------------| _______________________________________________ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
