Re: [Talk-tr] Mapping battle site Canakkale (Gallipoli), Turkey

Mon, 06 Jan 2014 16:00:36 -0800

I too am 'new to OSM'. But I think we should all be valued in our opinions/thoughts and work. So if your 'new' or 'old' ... your opinion/thoughts may help to come to a better understanding/solution?
I've now got quite a few things up. Some memorials I cannot guess at the name so I've just marked them and left the name alone. 

------- On Language

The Australian & New Zealanders who visit the site are primary 
interested in the activities of their countrymen there and have probably 
read one (or more) of the many books on the subject written from an 
ANZAC perspective, some are NZ or Australian bias too! A search on 
'trove' (Aust. National Library search engine - covers all the Aust. 
librarys) for Gallipoli (as it is known here) comes up with 2,699 .. 
these are book titles, 47 of them in Braille, some may be different 
editions or different entries for the same book but still it is a lot 
(long link 
http://trove.nla.gov.au/book/result?q-field0=&q-type0=all&q-term0=Gallipoli&q-field1=title%3A&q-type1=all&q-term1=&q-field2=creator%3A&q-type2=all&q-term2=&q-field3=subject%3A&q-type3=all&q-term3=&q-year1-date=&q-year2-date=&l-advformat=&l-advformat=&l-advformat=&l-advformat=&l-advformat=&l-availability=&l-discipline=&l-language=). 
They use the 'English' names as that is what the book relates to - the 
ANZACs on the ground. There are some recent books from the Turkish 
perspective (available here in English). So my entries are towards the 
ANZAC names used then, as that is what most Australians and New 
Zealanders would relate too. I think the language issue is very much 
dependant on the end user and their knowledge. I'd like to see both 
languages available.




Hopefully the rendering will take into account the end users language 
(and make sense out of complications I leave)?



I'm waiting on a response from the Aust. War Memorial regarding 
copyright permission. If I get that I'll use the Turkish names (not 
really a translation, but a Turkish name for the same object/place that 
the ANZACs named something else) that I linked to previously, these are 
by someone (I think you'd recognise the name?) who was there at the time 
and is Turkish so would be a good source for time and place relevance? 
If that does not come through the if you have a source without copyright 
restrictions then go for it.  On that site I'd rather have the historic 
name than any new name ... as a mark of respect .. and as more usefull 
to the visitors most of whom want historic information.



One problem is that the landscape is changing with errosion, cannot help 
that, so a ridge then may not be so pronounced or maybe we just don't 
have bullets wizzing around.


-------------- on OSM

I've had some trouble with the name:en .. as I have a source:name tag 
and that gives me a warning message that I have a source:name without a 
name tag .. though I have a name:en tag ... Think I'll get around it by 
changing the source:name tag to just a source tag.



Looks like the beach and valley tags might work best as an enclosed area 
rather than a line I have them at at this time. I'll change one and see 
what that does. I'll have to learn how to match the beach line to the 
shore line .. another tricky thing to do. So I'll do a valley first.



I've put 'gully' (a common Australian term for a dry creek bed usually 
with sharp sides) in as an intermittent stream, used by an American as 
found by googling.


----------------

At the moment it is a 'work in progress' ... another few days and I 
should be finished until copyright comes through (or doesn't)? I'll let 
you know for - me being 'finished' stage 1 - entries of what I have 
copyright free, stage 2 Aust. War Memorial copyright permission yes/no, 
stage 3 (if stage 2 yes) Turkish names + any other entries. That sound 
sensible/reasonable?




If you have any comments - make them .. even if I reply with what you 
might think a resounding counter argument, I'll still be thinking of 
your first comment. Can take me a while to properly come to a good 
solution/resolution of my thoughts.



On 6/01/2014 11:54 PM, [email protected] wrote:

Hi Warrin,
Firstly, thank you for your kind request for our opinion.
I am new to osm, so my words reflect my view.

I think the data you input must be based on Turkish names. Maybe it can be
multilangual if it is possible. The people who visit the battle field would
get much from Turkish names because they are the names currently used.

Remember that Allied Powers was at Gallipoli just for 8 months. So I am
against to see the landmarks with their naming.

Of course the memorials, and some important land marks which has referring
in English literature or army content can be good for anyone.

I request the view of experienced osm volunteers on this issue.

I also offer my help to find out current and historic names of the entities.
---------------
Arkadaşlar Merhaba,
Ben Gelibolu yer isimlerini, işgal kuvvetlerinin isimleri ile görmeye
karşıyım.
Sizin de görüş ve önerilerinizi rica ediyorum.


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2014 2:01 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Talk-tr Digest, Vol 50, Issue 2

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Today's Topics:

    1. Fwd: Re:  Mapping battle site Canakkale (Gallipoli),     Turkey
       (Warin)
    2. Re: Mapping battle site Canakkale (Gallipoli), Turkey
       (Roman Neum?ller)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2014 15:03:54 +1100
From: Warin <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Talk-tr] Fwd: Re:  Mapping battle site Canakkale
        (Gallipoli),    Turkey
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"

HI,

I've found some Turkish maps of the Canakkale  area  - copyrite expired so
they should be useable to OSM. They are old .. say 1916? But should give
information on the historical battlefield. Some of these are Turkish!
http://www.awm.gov.au/search-awm/collections/?q=G7432.G1+S65&conflict=all&su
bmit=Search


Unfortunatly they are presented at 72dpi .. making the finer details
unreadable.

I've placed a few deatils from one of them .. yet to do more.

Did a little housekeeping in the area  - road ending near roads but not
joined - joined where bing indicates, ways crossing ways - added nodes to
make routing possible etc.


On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 5:57 AM, Warin <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

     Hi,

     With the forthcoming services at I've taken the trouble of mapping
     the present memorials (and their associated roads, paths .. in some
     cases adjacent paths so people don't take the wrong ones) at
     Canakkale (Gallipoli), Turkey. A few were maped in the south (mainly
     British, about 4), one road was GPS sourced, other roads looked to
     be bing tracings. I've tried to get them all (OZ, NZ and Turkish
     mainly), there maybe a few left (at least 2 I think) but I've not
     found them with bing.

     The Question?
     Should I now map the named ridges, gullies etc that were used by
     'us' (and/or named by 'us') in the action?  These would be historic
     'English' names e.g. 'second ridge', 'valley of despair', 'cooee
     gully'. My source for this is copyright .. so I'll need permission
     from them (or another source). But before I ask for that I'd like an
     indication that the mapped features would not offend you.

     ------------------------
     Apologies for the english language, if someone could translate it in
     to Turkish it would be aprecialted.

     Happy New Year

     Warin.



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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2014 09:17:18 +0200
From: Roman Neum?ller <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Talk-tr] Mapping battle site Canakkale (Gallipoli),
        Turkey
Message-ID: <op.w887u4r9kn9205@bigmama>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1254; format=flowed;
        delsp=yes

it should be ok using english names
you could also use name:en tag...

Roman

On Mon, 06 Jan 2014 06:03:54 +0200, Warin <[email protected]> wrote:


HI,

I've found some Turkish maps of the Canakkale  area  - copyrite
expired so they should be useable to OSM. They are old .. say 1916?
But should give information on the historical battlefield. Some of
these are Turkish!
http://www.awm.gov.au/search-awm/collections/?q=G7432.G1+S65&conflict=
all&submit=Search


Unfortunatly they are presented at 72dpi .. making the finer details
unreadable.

I've placed a few deatils from one of them .. yet to do more.

Did a little housekeeping in the area  - road ending near roads but
not joined - joined where bing indicates, ways crossing ways - added
nodes to make routing possible etc.


On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 5:57 AM, Warin <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

     Hi,

     With the forthcoming services at I've taken the trouble of mapping
     the present memorials (and their associated roads, paths .. in some
     cases adjacent paths so people don't take the wrong ones) at
     Canakkale (Gallipoli), Turkey. A few were maped in the south (mainly
     British, about 4), one road was GPS sourced, other roads looked to
     be bing tracings. I've tried to get them all (OZ, NZ and Turkish
     mainly), there maybe a few left (at least 2 I think) but I've not
     found them with bing.

     The Question?
     Should I now map the named ridges, gullies etc that were used by
     'us' (and/or named by 'us') in the action?  These would be historic
     'English' names e.g. 'second ridge', 'valley of despair', 'cooee
     gully'. My source for this is copyright .. so I'll need permission
     from them (or another source). But before I ask for that I'd like an
     indication that the mapped features would not offend you.

     ------------------------
     Apologies for the english language, if someone could translate it in
     to Turkish it would be aprecialted.

     Happy New Year

     Warin.



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     Talk-tr mailing list
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