Thanks for all the inputs! Actually, today I did a quick google search with "open source transit" and found out a couple of interesting website: http://onebusaway.org/ which offers right what I was looking for (multi-platform, open-source, gtfs...) and the twin project: http://opentripplanner.org/ (support of OSM, GTFS) well...the tools are there, we could give a look to them and start planning something :) I guess timetable infos and other details can reside into GTFS, while OSM stands for simple route rendering + map background. An import/export GTFS<->OSM tool should be designed for easy conversion and use,
Ciao Tiziano On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 19:40, McGuire, Matthew < [email protected]> wrote: > >Can you please elaborate what "Google specifications" are? I think I > have heard of such, but failed to find them. Any hints? > > > > GTFS – General Transit Feed Specification formerly Google Transit Feed > Specification > > http://code.google.com/transit/spec/transit_feed_specification.html > > > > > > > > *From:* [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Michal Borsuk > *Sent:* Monday, June 28, 2010 12:17 PM > *To:* Public transport/transit/shared taxi related topics > *Subject:* Re: [Talk-transit] OSM Transit platform: call for action > > > > > > On 28 June 2010 18:39, Vincent Pottier <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Le 28/06/2010 17:37, Michał Borsuk a écrit : > > > > * no approved standard. Should the stops be within the line as a point, > or as their physical location shows? > > If I have well understood the question, I think that a bus stop must be > mapped where it is physicaly, and not on the line. So at a bus stop you > usualy have two nodes one on left, one on right. > > > Sure, this is my logic. But the currently most applied oxomoa standard > states otherwise. > > > > > Should we map a separate relation just for the branch of the line from > the split, or for the entire line? > > For the entire line. It is easy to make a copy of a relation in JOSM, a to > fulfill it. > > > 1. Aren't they going to appear as separate lines in openbusmap (ÖPNVkarte)? > Or do they have to be nested in another relation, which is clearly against > the intention of the authors of relations? > 2. JOSM in hands of beginners = disaster (if they ever get past the > installation stage). Personally I try to avoid JOSM as much as possible. > Personal preferences. > > > > > What is the point of having two relations for two directions in Europe? > IMHO Oxomoa seems way too difficult for beginners, and it's overblown. The > overhead needed to maintain the standard is WAY too big. I have calculated > that sticking to the standard would cost me 25 to 50% more time, with just > marginally better results. The time to understand the standard is also not > to be ignored. A new standard, better suited but compatible with what has > been done is needed. > > I feel also that the Oxoma schema is sometimes too eavy. > But for maintenance two relations, one in each way, is easyer to maintain > for me. > Because the road taken in the two ways are very often different. > > > Surely if so! But if the difference is such that one direction goes on one > side of the avenue, and other direction of course goes on the other side of > the trees, then the road's "one_direction" tag kind of makes it clear where > the bus goes. If we intend to show routing on OSM in the future, then > missing pieces of information that would have to be entered by hand can be > dealt with by software. > > That's why I asked about a tree-structured lines, e.g. RER. Presently one > has to map one entire line, then copy it as another version. And what if I > don't know the entire line? Do I copy the non-complete version and then deal > with extending 8 identical relations towards their terminus? Or if the > relation is remporarily re-routed due to construction, do I also have to > play with all versions? > > > Having ordered members in the relation is an easy way to find a mistake > in JOSM. > > > Is JOSM an integral part of OSM, or is it only one of the three editors? > Each editor is responsible for ca 1/3 of edits, and I would be really > hesitant to force upon users features that can be done only in JOSM. > Personal preferences of editors are not important? > > > With two stops (one on each side of the road) it is easier to fill the > right relation with the right stop. > > > It was just a rhetoric question to show how "disconnected from reality" > oxomoa can be. As a principle I dislike criticizing without providing an > alternative, so I would be very interested in having a discussion on > improving the schema. I strongly believe that it is possible to improve it > without damaging compatibility. > > > The schema could seem too difficult for a beginner but: > The beginners don't start mapping with a transport network. > The reality is complex. > > > Surely total beginners should not be allowed to mess with maps, this is not > wikipedia. But having mapped 97% of lines in my area I still consider myself > a beginner. Maybe not a total one, but still, I find the learning curve a > bit complex. Do we want to keep the project elitist? > > The tools are more and more handful. > > > Really? I know three: potlatch, merkaartor and josm. Are there any others, > excluding plugins? > > > > > I'm sure that the Google specifications are usually enough. How can we map > them ? > > > Can you please elaborate what "Google specifications" are? I think I have > heard of such, but failed to find them. Any hints? > > > > > To sum it all up, at present I decided to put the lines on the map just > so that openbusmap.org (ÖPNVkarte) can show them, but details must wait. I > suggest that you just remember what you want to introduce, and I suggest > that presently we work on slimming the oxomoa suggestion to make them scale > better, that is to make them accessible to beginners, as well as usable for > pros. In my opinion OSM is no Wikipedia, where one can just click Edit and > produce sensible results. We need to step out to prospective editors, make > the experience less of a hell for beginners. > > With a good documentation, maybe the beginners would understand the > schema. But you are right, the Oxoma page is not synthetic! > > > > I am repeating myself, but I seem to be a bit newer than you people are, so > let me share my experience: the learning curve to producing a sensible > network is a hell. The worst point is to try to stick to oxomoa. It is > fairly easy to start mapping one bus line, but then it becomes very > difficult to get everything under control. I don't want to sh*t on the > standard, because it is the only one, but I suggest we get to work pretty > early to divide the entire process of mapping lines into a few (I would see > two-three) different levels of difficulty, on which I will elaborate in a > separate email for clarity. > > > Greetings, > > > -- > Best regards, mit freundlichen Grüssen, meilleurs sentiments, Pozdrowienia, > > > Michał Borsuk > > _______________________________________________ > Talk-transit mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit > >
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