On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 5:51 PM, Jason Remillard <[email protected]> wrote:
> - Imports are officially allowed. We have a process defined for doing them > well. We unfortunately don't have a process defined for doing them well. We have DWG as an enforcement group, and I'm trying to bring together folks for defining a process and moving imports forward. That's why I'm trying to move things forward, so we have less of this type of disagreement through an organized process. > - Steve Coast, the project founder, just three months ago asked for a > crazy huge import for addresses. Steve suggested we need addresses. He didn't ask for a crazy huge import. But what may not be obvious to outsiders is that Steve's keynotes are often challenges to the community. A few years ago, he discussed website redesign. Then he talked about the challenges of getting and maintaining new mappers. Now it's addresses. Steve's role in the community has and continues to evolve, and I think Steve does an excellent job at helping us see areas where we can improve. > When 98% of the data in US was already imported, it seems a kind of > late to be even having this discussion. The project evolves. We're only now seeing some of the problems we hadn't thought of years ago. I know- I was a huge import proponent, and did a few. So did Ian. And Frederik has run automated edits in the past as well. The people who are the most vocal about the problems with automated imports and automated edits are the ones who have done the most work on it; who see the pitfalls from experience. > It is really absurd to ask > people who are are interested in imports to go someplace else, when > imports are a huge part of the map in the US (this is talk-us right?), I think this is a veiled reference to some emails you and I have exchanged off list. In them, you've seemed increasinly unhappy, despite being praised and welcomed many times. I suggested that I try never to do things I don't like, especially with my free time, and that if you felt unhappy with OSM but wanted to work on Free geodata an imports, that you might be happier working on something like CommonMap, which has a different approach than OSM does, one that focuses exclusively on freely available geodata from large organizations such as governments. But in that email, and in every subsequent email (as in emails before that email), I've reiterated that I view OSM as an inclusive project and that I want to see everyone feel welcome (as long a they're not inappropriate or disruptive). Of course, if you want to feel persecuted, you're free to do so. You stated a couple of weeks ago that you felt people were "not nice" on the list and now you're saying you're being asked to leave. Unless it's someone else asking you to leave, then I think you may want to re-evaluate your perceptions in the face of what is really an incredibly welcoming community. > I am > frustrated that my thread was taken over like this. We should rename > this mailing list "import-fighting-us-plus-frederik". This is a useful discussion of the project and how we got to where we are. Frederik's input is invaluable. He's been with the project a very long time, as both a heavy contributor and as a commercial service provider, and his insight is always interesting. I don't always agree with Frederik (especially on issues of the role of the OSMF) but as I suggested to you off list, one of the things about the community is that we're relatively small, and relatively easy to talk to. As for this "fighting", I see very little fighting. I see a lot of passionate arguments being made. I do have to say, I'm finding myself increasingly frustrated with your approach, which is becoming increasingly personal (such as suggesting that you're being "pushed out of the project"). Perhaps you've found this to be a useful strategy in getting your way in other communities, but I think you'll find that well thought out arguments backed up with lots of data, and doing the work, will beat out innuendo and mud slinging. - Serge _______________________________________________ Talk-us mailing list [email protected] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
