Thanks all for your input. With this advice in mind, and my own thinking / opinion, I wrote the a diary entry which I hope will spark further debate :) https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/mvexel/diary/42450
Best Martijn On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 11:59 AM, Paul Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 12:17 PM, Kevin Kenny <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 10:00 AM, Richie Kennedy >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> > Perhaps I should make it clear that I am willing to pull a **full NE2 >> > defense** of the position that a controlled-access Super 2 is properly >> > tagged as motorway. >> >> Do we have differing definitions of a Super Two? >> > > I believe we're all on the same page that a super-two type situation is a > controlled access, single carriageway, where that single carriageway > operates in both directions, typically two lanes (though there may be > additional lanes for short distances to facilitate merging, exiting or at > toll plazas). > > My personal threshold for 'motorway' is that potential conflicting traffic >> is >> grade separated. >> > > Would you consider oncoming traffic as conflicting? That's the crux on > the super-two debate. I would consider at least two lanes each way, > free-flowing, controlled access, and at least two carriageways as the > minimum threshold for motorways. Limited access, at-grade intersections, > single carriageway, this all would be more characteristic of trunks to me. > > >> I'm not comfortable with tagging as 'motorway' any road that has >> at-grade opposing >> traffic. (Example: US 7 in between Arlington and Rutland, Vermont. >> Access is fully controlled, but there is >> no grade separation between opposing lanes. Climbing lanes are provided on >> steep grades, but passing in the oncoming lane is lawful in some straight >> and >> level sections.) >> > > I've made a one-off exception in the case of US 412 on Diamond Head, > mostly because a single, lone, relatively unused junction remains at grade > out of over 160 km of motorway largely due to terrain limitations. There's > a few similar situations with driveways and the occasional extremely minor > road going directly into bona-fide interstates in Utah. And of course, the > traffic lights to let ships through the drawbridge on I 5, literally the > only traffic light on that road for it's entire three state run. So there > is an edge case to motorways where every attempt has been made to ensure > traffic is free flowing and conflict-free, but some single point couldn't > be properly eliminated. > > I'm not planning to tag or retag anything; I don't have a dog in this >> particular >> fight. I write this message as a data consumer. But I think that the >> tagging seen >> in http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/41.88704/-73.76900 is utterly >> nonsensical. What the Sam Hill does it mean to have a 'motorway' that >> you tag as 'trunk' for barely the width of the intersection so that you >> can >> put a grade crossing on it? It might silence a warning about placing >> a grade crossing on something as a motorway, but there's no useful >> information to a driver. >> > > It's worse than useless - it raises the false expectation that the road is >> a >> motorway when it is not. It has grade crossings; it has narrow shoulders >> (not >> necessarily a disqualifier); it has the same speed limit as primary roads >> in its vicinity. It's a trunk road, or would be if we had designated trunk >> roads in the US. Tagging it as a motorway encourages unsafe driving, >> and at the threshold of an intersection is not sufficient notice to >> drivers >> of a downgrade. >> > > This reminds me of WA 500 between I 5 just north of Officer's Row in > Vancouver, WA; and Fourth Plain near the Sifton neighborhood. It really > should be trunk for that whole length due to the mix of at-grade and grade > separated intersections and abrupt end on a surface street (and even after > the last intermediate intersections at 42nd and at Stapleton get grade > separated, I'd still be wary of calling any part of that a motorway until > something's done about the end at Fourth Plain, because it does > significantly interrupt traffic coming from the expressway part, literally > opposite what you would expect out of a freeway, particularly when it's so > short). > > Trunk is basically everything that's more freeway-like than a boulevard, > but not quite a freeway. > > _______________________________________________ > Talk-us mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us > >
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