I bet they wanted to know where the command key was, and where the q was.
Pam.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathan Cohn via Talk
Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2016 7:47 AM
To: David ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: new laptop keyboard issue
I think this is a generational thing for the sighted. People I have worked
with who have only used Windows / Macintosh systems and are sighted tend to
just use the eye candy on the screen to do most of the functions assigned to
function keys. It was amusing when I was in the Apple store this weekend and
they were giving an introductory class. "Now Everybody hold down the command
key and hit Q, can you tell me what happened?" There are even rumors out
that some new computers will have a mini display associated with the
function keys and will alter the display based on the application running.
Won't that be fun!
Best wishes,
Jonathan
On Sep 7, 2016, at 3:14 PM, David via Talk <[email protected]>
wrote:
Although I cannot speak for your particular system or issue, my
experience with newer HP machines is that they need a tweak in the BIOS,
to have the top-row of your keyboard behave normal. A tweak that only
can be performed with two eyes around, since the BIOS has to be accessed
long before any software is loaded. This silliness of redefining the
keys, requiring them to be combined with the FN-key, even for plain
standard operations like closing a program, is something that even
sighted people complains about. The net is full of such complains, just
do a bit of a search on the matter. HP machines are known to be among
the troublemakers in this regard, but even other manufacturers have been
reported to follow the same strange line of defining the keyboard. Had
they even let the user have a key-combo to switch the normal and strange
layout/behavior, but nope, not so well. BIOS is the one and only way
around the matter.
I ended up ditching a machine from HP, since I do have no eyes that were
qualified for the redefinition, and I simply could no longer stand the
whole FN-business. That was even on a full-sized keyboard on a 17"
laptop, where there was no real good reason for having this kind of
strangeness, since there would be no need for excessive multi-function
of any key. Why HP has deicded to go down that line, even when their
long-time customers do not want the stuff, is another part of the story.
Sorry, I cannot be of more assistance on the matter. Do you happen to
have two eyes around, and do you want to meddle with the BIOS of your
machine, you likely can fix the issue. Otherwise, CapsLock to replace
the Insert-key in WE, is of course but one workaround. Still, you may
need the FN-key in combination with any of your F-keys, which can be
tiresome in the long run. Too bad that we often will have to skip the
whole line of HP machines, just because of silly layout, but in reality
I am afraid that is the best advice at the moment. HP used to be stirdy
good and reliable machines, but their stubbornness on the FN-key simply
pulls the plug for many a user - sighted or not.
David
On 9/7/2016 5:23 PM, Van Lant, Robin via Talk wrote:
I have an interesting challenge on my new HP laptop keyboard. I realized
before I bought it that it did not have an application key, but the
discovery since buying it is that the Insert Key does not work as Insert
unless I hit the FN key. If I just hit the button alone, it's print
screen. The insert is just to the right of the F12 key. I'm still
looking for how I might be able to change the setting to not require the
FN key to make any of the function keys and the insert work as I'd like,
but wondering if anyone has any good suggestions in the meantime for WE
commands where I want to use Insert without finger gymnastics to also hit
the FN key.
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