Vaughan, I never had the chance of checking out the Orbit, neither the produtype nor any final product.
Recently though, I saw advertised on another list, that there is on the bedding a new product from India, and far as I recall it was supposed to have the cursor routing feature. It too is told to be launched to the market for a price about the 400-500 dollars. Yet another list, one member told that he apparently and practically has all the functionalities for a "personal budget" Braille display ready, except from the actual casing and the marketing facilities, along with the few thousand dollars he needs to finance the production start. Even locally, I do notice the blind organization advertising they now sell a Braille display (think it was 32 or 40 cells), for something just under 2000 dollars. Far from the pricing of 10000 plus, we have seen from the mainstream manufacturers. The interesting thing about it all, is that if any of these really make it into the market - in a year or two - they will definitely revolutionize the availability of braille for the general private person. I know that at least one of the here mentioned models, did call for information on how to develop drivers for NVDA. Now, if NVDA starts to get drivers for affordable Braille displays, and yet the big screen readers do not know their callout time, they might be loosing market share. Specially since NVDA starts to become a real alternative for many everyday users, who do not necessarily need all the whistles and bells of the big WinEyes, Jaws or Cobra readers. As for the amount of cells, I could agree to a certain degree. 20cell display might seem to little for a driven user, in his comparison with 40 or even 80cell models. But believe me, I did originally work with 80cell displays, and later on in the laptop era, did turn over to 40cell displays. It sure was a learning curve, all the sudden to have only half the overview. Yet, after being without my display for a few months, only relying on speech - once I got back on Braille, even the 40cells was a huge improvement. Many models of Braille computerized tools down through history have been 20cell. Will the older group of list members ever remember the VersaBraille model 1 and 2 - both being 20cells. They were manufactured by TSI, in the 70's and up through the 80's. I used to teach students VersaBraille, and saw them clearly benefitting from the 20cells. Compared to nothing, 20 is quite a number. Besides, do they know to manufacture a 20cell display for just about 500 dollars - my guess is that once they get the hold of the market, they will be able to produce a 40cell model, well under the 1000 dollars. In other words, the technology calls for a drastic reduction in pricing of Braille displays, cross the whole range of sizes. And once that happens, people might be encouraged to start using braille on their computer. It has come to my knowledge more than once on this list, that list members have expressed their wish to go Braille, yet pricing being the showstopper. With displays coming down in the range 500-1000 dollars, at least we are quite close to the moment when even a private budget would carry the cost; with a bit of saving time. First talking Braille, did you guys hear about the young boy (12-year I think he was), who a couple of years ago managed to build a Braille printer from off-shelf lego. Interesting since this means that modern technology might open up for far more competition on the Braille market. Finally, did I have the choice of doing without Braille, or at least getting an affordable Braille display, I would be willing to deal with a few drawbacks in things like speediness - long as the display and the screen reader would be working reliably together. Cursor routing would definitely be a wish, but again, if the feature would be so pricy that I could not afford it, I think I would learn to do without, like on my first Braille display back in the 80's. Smile. Big question is, I guess with a tiny jokey smile, if all of this modern low-cost technology and free screen readers are going to really get the bigger bite of the cake - will we there be room for the big screen readers being all that big any longer? :D Back to seriousness, yes there will be room for them in the market, as they will still be necessary for the heavy computer user. But for the one who only writes posting to the mailing lists, do a bit of banking on the net, browse for a recipe or make small private notes? For such users a low-cost, few-celled display and a low-cost - or even free - screen reader might simply just be enough. That is, if they will be a more reliable combination than what we see from WinEyes. I have to admit, have never worked with modern versions of Jaws, so cannot speak for its reliability and feature-richness with regards to Braille support.technolo On 1/25/2017 10:32 PM, Vaughan Dodd wrote: > Hi David. > > I have never accepted the driver problem issue, and I agree with you that > this has been a long standing problem for too long. Adding devices to the > display list was once upon a time a good strategy, as it was a gesture > towards getting more braille to more people. However: there are lots of > shortcomings between Window-Eyes and the three displays that I am fortunate > to have access to. > > When I have posted to this list on various occasions regarding braille > issues, I got the reassuring comments from past staffers that there would be > fixes. I have advocated for an complete rewrite of braile support, and it > certainly has not happened. > > > Regarding the new Orbit, priced at approximately $500.00 u.s. and the > assumption that it will put braille in the hands of more users: I saw the > prototype in October. I do not know how far away it was from being the final > device. The Orbit has potential, but I sense that it will disapoint fluent > and efficient braille users. Its 20 cells are too few for extended reading. > It also lacks cursor routing features, which for me is a major shortcoming. > However - the objective is to keep the price down, and there does seem to > have ben a good effort to do just that. The prototype that I saw had very > crisp and firm cells. > > My guess is that there will be a universal set of drivers but for a product > like Window-eyes, I think the Orbit wil be disappointing because it does not > have the hardware flexibility to configure numerous hot keys - and again - > the absence of cursor routing will make it ineficient for the experienced > operator. > > Vaughan. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: David [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Thursday, 26 January 2017 10:21 a.m. > To: Vaughan Dodd; Window-Eyes Discussion List > Subject: Re: Braille Display Not Working > > Though I cannot remember getting the message the initial poster refered to, I > can confirm the braille display to every now and then dropping out, and > requiring me to turn it physically Off and back On, or to restart WE. Has > been the case ever since I started with WE, way back a decade ago. I did > report it, and was told that it all would be due to the driver, provided by > Handitech (the manufacturer), and that GW could do nothing. I have updated to > latest driver for the actual Braille display, and never got any better result. > > > WE has never had good Braille support, the way I see it. I have a feeling, it > is more important to get as many Braille displays entered on the list of > supported models, than actually to get any of them working completely. > Whether this is due to WE, or the manufacturers simply do not care to develop > good enough drivers, I am not the one to determine. > Sometimes, I get a feeling a rewrite of the Braille code in WE, would have > been in place. Not even sure what time they last did have any real update on > the Braille side of town. > > > Guess the philosophy is that there is not enough Braille users, and therefore > efforts have been increasingly been put on speech, and general features. > Leaving the number of Braille users behind. What will be interesting though, > is to see what will happen to the number of Braille users, now that new and > far more cheap displays hit the market. When people will be able to buy a > Braille display less than 500 dollars, I wonder if that will encourage the > users to start using Braille on their computer, thereby encouraging the > screen reader manufacturers to raise their endeavors on Braille features > again. > > > > On 1/25/2017 8:25 PM, Vaughan Dodd via Talk wrote: >> Unfortunately: braile display failure when running Firefox or Internet >> Explorer is a frequent occurrence, although I do not get the same error >> message that you've described. >> VFO are overdue in my book to fix this. When we had GW Micro, and then AI >> Squared, several users reported a similar problem. >> >> And to add to the feeling that the JFW habbit of adding new features to ones >> which have bugs is now part of the culture, if we now have BrailleNote touch >> as a new display, why wasn't this braille display failure fixed as well? >> >> >> I have access to three 40 cell displays from three different manufacturers >> and they run on two different machines with different Windows versions. In >> all instances, the displays fail independently of their individual patterns >> for self imposing stand-by. For me - they come back to life through a >> Window-eyes closure and restart. >> >> >> Vaughan. >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Talk >> [mailto:[email protected] >> ] On Behalf Of Pele West via Talk >> Sent: Wednesday, 25 January 2017 10:38 p.m. >> To: Windows Talk List >> Subject: Braille Display Not Working >> >> Hi Everyone >> >> Further to my previous message about my braille display stopping when using >> Firefox, I have just tried it on the Sainsbury's website and it stopped >> working. >> >> Window-Eyes said "Generic Application Error JSP" before it gave up. >> >> >> I was able to get the braille back when I loaded a different page. >> >> Pele West >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author >> and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >> >> For membership options, visit >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/vaughan.dodd001%40msd.govt.nz. >> For subscription options, visit >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >> List archives can be found at >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >> >> ------------------------------- >> This email and any attachments may contain information that is confidential >> and subject to legal privilege. 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The Ministry of Social Development accepts no responsibility >> for changes made to this message or attachments after transmission from the >> Ministry. >> >> ------------------------------- >> _______________________________________________ >> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author >> and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >> >> For membership options, visit >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/trailerdavid%40hotmail.com. >> For subscription options, visit >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >> List archives can be found at >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >> . >> > > ------------------------------- > This email and any attachments may contain information that is confidential > and subject to legal privilege. 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