Why is it that we keep putting out these negative subject lines.
>From my point of view Window Eyes is still working, it is still
reading my
screen and I can still access all the things I need to.
Veronica
-----Original Message-----
From: Talk
[mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf
Of Joseph Norton via Talk
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 1:33 PM
To: 'Pamela Dominguez'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'; 'Steve Nutt'
Subject: RE: Going Backward in Accessibility?
Actually, in Office 2016, it's even easier than that.
All you have to do is press alt-q and you'll be placed in the "Tell
me what
you want to do" box.
-----Original Message-----
From: Talk
[mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Pamela Dominguez via Talk
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 2:34 PM
To: Steve Nutt <[email protected]>; Window-Eyes Discussion List
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Going Backward in Accessibility?
Tab to what? And do what? I have never seen any tell me what to do
edit
box. Pam.
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Nutt via Talk
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 1:48 PM
To: [email protected] ; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: RE: Going Backward in Accessibility?
Hi Steve,
You're assuming though that everyone has to go the long way round to
access
ribbons and options within them.
In Office for example, you don't need to access the ribbon when you
can't
find something. Just bring it up, then tab to the Tell Me What To Do
edit
box, and type in what you want. It is usually found, however deeply
it is
buried. The problem is training. Trainers don't teach these additional
methods of getting there quickly.
All the best
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: Talk
[mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Steve Jacobson via Talk
Sent: 13 January 2017 16:53
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Going Backward in Accessibility?
Peter and all,
While I mostly agree with you, especially given that we have fairly good
accessibility built into products that are much more complicated than
those
of fifteen or twenty years ago, I think we are often affected more by
change
than are sighted people. There needs to be some thought as to how
this can
be handled. While this can affect the ability of a new blind user to
learn
software, its greatest impact is on those who have used software for
a long
time and have become efficient in its use.
For example, let's look at the Microsoft Ribbon. This was a major
change to
the way that options are displayed in Microsoft products. However, even
though it can be frustrating for sighted users. It is usually
possible to
locate options by visually inspecting the ribbon and then moving the
mouse
directly to that item without serious delay. The act of moving the
mouse to
a given location and then clicking on it is a standard action that is
not
dependent on anything that is unique to the ribbon or Microsoft
Office. The
complaints I hear from sighted users are more along the line of how much
space the ribbon takes, and there are even some workarounds for that. I
don't read a lot of complaints about the ribbon any more in the general
press although I suppose there are complaints out there yet.
So why was the change to the ribbon difficult for us? The ribbon has
pretty
much always been accessible in a technical sense. In my opinion, it is
because our greatest efficiency is achieved by our memory and our
ability to
repeat a sequence of actions reliably. When confronted with the ribbon
rather than a typical menu system, our method of finding an item is
to use
the navigation that is built into Office to examine the ribbon
sequentially.
If that navigation is sluggish, it will slow our ability even beyond
what we
are already experiencing because of needing to look sequentially.
Therefore, even when accessibility is implemented, we depend upon more
levels of the software, operating system and specific software, to
get the
information we need. In addition, we are needing to access information
sequentially rather than being able to take the shortest path to the
desired
item as can be done visually with the mouse.
We do get around all this in time by learning keyboard shortcuts and
accellerator keys. As a rule, though, keyboard shortcuts and
accellerators
are assigned to some degree by their locations in menus and ribbons. In
menus, there were generally two keystrokes involved, the first to get
to the
pulldown and the second to choose the specific item. The order of
the items
in a menu affect the keystrokes assigned. Typing a letter will get
one to
the first item starting with that letter. If there is another item
starting
with the same letter, the next letter of the item not already
assigned is
used. In the end, we generally figure out how to do this
efficiently, and
we get these keystrokes reinforced by the menu system itself.
So what about the ribbon. Pretty much all of the above approaches are
implemented in the ribbon. In addition, there are keys to jump
through the
groups as well. However, many, if not most, of the accellerator key
sequences have changed there. Rather than needing to look for a
command or
function for an extra second or two, we can spend a great deal of time
working through the ribbon sequentially or trying keystrokes we think
might
work. The effect of the change on us is far greater than it is on
people
using these same products with vision even though accessibility exists
technically.
I've used the ribbon as an example because it is probably one of the
more
extreme examples and it is one we have often faced. However, this
difference in how we access software is very true in other areas. For
example, because of how accellerator keys are assigned, changing the
order
that items appear in a pulldown menu can change which keys access
them. A
change in the order may hardly be noticed by someone clicking with a
mouse
but needing to use different keystrokes to get there can have a much
greater
impact on us. It requires that we relearn a pattern while it
requires only
a minor adjustment for the person using a mouse. Moving an item out
of a
menu into a toolbar might make it more quickly identifiable visually
while
it might make it harder for us to find in some cases, especially if
the item
is moved to a deeper level in a menu because it is now on a toolbar.
There
are other examples as well but I've already gone on too long.
The point is that although I agree with Peter that we are probably
better
off then we think regarding accessibility, there are things about
efficient
interfaces that are not really well understood. This is getting
worse as
software becomes more complex and developers struggle to make their
applications easier to use visually. While there are basics that we can
insist be implemented, it is really not easy to make all of the above
clear
to a developer. Even if we can, it's not always that simple to know
what to
do. For example, if we somehow kept the same accellerator keys
active on
the ribbon, it would make life easier for those who have used a
product for
a long time, but the keystrokes would make no sense to a new user
trying to
learn them. While we might be able to get large companies like
Microsoft to
understand this better, the ability to get all developers to think about
this is very unlikely. While I am very encouraged by the innovations
that
have allowed us to use touch screens, efficiency is not really a
consideration there. Again, we may well remember where something is
on a
touch screen and get good at activating it efficiently, but if the
developer
changes the screen, we are going to need to do a lot of searching to
find
out to where it was moved while the new location will be available
quickly
using vision.
I am saying all of this for two reasons. First change means more
adjusting
for us, so as change comes faster and faster, it adds more overhead
to our
ability to access software efficiently. It is not all that
surprising that
we are going to whine some about change. Second, at some level, we are
going to have to think about how screen readers can fill the gap
between how
we access software and how one accesses it visually. This is especially
important for those of us using software in employment settings. It
means
that some of our feelings of frustration when things change are
justified,
but it also means that we have to keep looking for answers and the
answers
may not always be with those developing software. It is going to take
people much smarter than me to find some of these answers.
Best regards,
Steve Jacobson
-----Original Message-----
From: Talk
[mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Peter Duran via Talk
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 2:13 AM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' <[email protected]>
Subject: Going Backward in Accessibility?
Hello All,
There are different issues in play when discussing accessibility.
Computer technology has changed rapidly and relentlessly since the first
computer made its appearance. See the wonderful movie "Hidden Figures"
currently in theaters about 3 African American women mathematicians who
worked for NASA in the late fifties and beyond. They had to deal with
racism, sexism, and rapid change in their jobs.
Us blind folks, until Section 508 of the Accessibility law came into
effect,
had alike discrimination in the workplace. However, today,the major
developers of software - Apple and Microsoft - build into their
development
efforts accessibility - perhaps not as fast as we would wish.
The marketplace drives Web and Internet developments, and that
development
occurs rapidly and in unexpected ways. All of that makes it hard for
developers of access technology to keep up.
I have been in the access biz for forty years and my customers have
feared
being left behind with every marketplace innovation. The reality is,
however, since Bill Gates of Microsoft made the commitment to
accessibility,
things have been really good for us.
I have no doubt that progress will continue, yes in fits and starts,
nevertheless forward.
The core issue for us is whether third-party developers will
disappear and
access left to mainstream software manufacturers. Apple does a good job
with its VoiceOver software, and tech support of disabled users is
solid!
iPhone technology has become the main communication tool for blind
students
in college and in professional job environments. It is dynosaurs
like us
old dudes that resist change. It took me lots of effort to get my
wife to
switch from a flip phone to an iPhone; she still refuses to learn
more than
she needs, but she now send text messages, pictures, cute visual
effects,
and so on. Sad to say, the older we get, the harder its is to
change. (I
have not as yet switched to Windows 10. It is good to wait until the
bugs
are under control, until access catches up, and until the need
arises.) I
did buy a Windows 10 HP laptop from QVC during their Christmas bash, and
will get to it this Spring when I have time to write a tutorial for
Windows
10.
Microsoft, with the change of leadership a couple of years ago,
rethought
its overall corporate structure and switched to a "vertical model"
where all
development groups are required to incorporate alike software into core
products to ensure uniformity of functionality. Last year, Microsoft
created a new access group withsignificant powers to oversee
accessibility
issues. It is my personal guess that Narrator will become A
significant
screen reader within Windows 10 and will rival the accessibility
features of
VoiceOver of Apple and of Window-Eyes and JAWS.
Let us all hope for the best access and let our dinosaur tendencies
behind.
Peter Duran
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