Hi Trini,
I appreciate your feedback. I too had some nice conversations, albeit short,
with Rodolfo & Maria Cieri before Rodolfo's death. BTW, I really admired
their dancing. Rodolfo was a really fine dancer with impeccable technique
and wonderful sense of musicality. As you probably know, I'm a native
Spanish speaker so I have had many wonderful chats with many great Argentine
tango dancers. Actually, since I'm not so far removed from some of their
generations, I actually have memories of the tango music when it was played
in the radio and also I remember my parents and other grown-ups dancing the
tango (it was like the early tango as taught by Eduardo and Gloria
Arquimbau).
Anyway, it is a running joke among teachers that they don't give credit to
their teachers. From talking with most of them you get the idea that they
were all self-taught (-; The truth is that many of them learned tango from
other dancers. Granted, they are innovators and artists in their own right
and they invented or discovered many a new move or step. The tango has been
in the process of emerging and changing since it's beginnings way back then.
Many of the best dancers of today learned from their parents who were
themselves great dancers. Many others were trained dancers of folkloric
groups or modern dance, who learned tango from excellent instructors.
I have it from several credible sources that the early tango was basically a
grapevine step (the molinete or giro) which remains to this day as the basic
code of the tango. Both partners danced the same way mirroring each other
and danced sideways. There was no line of dance. I'm sure it was easier to
learn by watching and dancing... Later the tango evolved to what it is like
today. It would be very difficult, specially for a guy to just watch modern
salon tango and learn all it's intricacies of lead and follow, plus all the
steps, LOD, musicality, etc. The truth is that a few people with special
talent can learn and even create dance steps and moves with ease. But even
they have some sort of instruction. Often it is high caliber instruction.
I began to dance regularly and often many years ago. I remember that all the
couple dances were challenging to learn and more difficult to become skilled
at them. Even the folk dances which are much easier to do present challenges
to many people. There are numbers of them who can't even contra dance or
dance old time square dances very well after doing it for years. One of the
things we did in Atlanta in the contra dances was to institute instruction
for the new comers...... Yes, even folk dances require instruction in order
to learn. I've taught swing in the past and I've found that even with lots
of instruction and patience, many people have a very hard time learning even
the most basic thing, such as the 1,2 rock step... Even merengue is super
challenging to many folks. Salsa is all but impossible to pick up by
watching. Tango is no different, it's a specialized dance with it's own set
of rules and structures. Although tango allows more "faking" of the dance
(since many people totally ignore the music), it's still a difficult dance
to get master or even to gain a modicum of proficiency.
I think I understand who these "technical experts" are. I think we are
talking about people who have managed to mimic tango movements somewhat
successfully, but have not learned to dance. There are some of them. But
personally, I think that the tango technique includes the ability to lead
and follow with skill and smoothness. Also technical expertise implies that
one can dance to the music and with grace. Otherwise, I don't think that a
person is technically proficient. There are a few dancers out there that
appear to be quite good and yet leave one thinking that there is something
missing... But I think that these are a very small minority. Hardly worth
the huge discussions generated in these forums. My goodness, from the volume
of discussions about these folks, one could think that a huge percentage of
tango dancers are out there with perfect technical skills and no feeling
whatsoever (-;
With best regards,
Manuel
P.S.
It would have been great if you could have joined us for the G&G event. We
had a wonderful time. The workshops and the milongas were exceptionally
good. The level of dancing was just awesome. We even had genuine Argentine
food at the milongas (5 milongas in 4 days). We had authentic media lunas,
facturas, dulce de leche, jamon y queso, etc. At the farewell milonga we
even had a genuine asado with the authentic style cuts of beef, high quality
Uruguayan chorizo, salads, freshly baked bread, milhojas cake, wine, etc.
The participants were just great. Could not ask for a better bunch of tango
dancers and all around great people. I'll contact you when another event
like this takes place.
visit our webpage
www.tango-rio.com
From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Tango-L <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Practice can be a waste too.
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 08:45:58 -0700 (PDT)
Hi Manuel
Nice post and your suggestion of using words more precisely
stands on its own merits. I had a few thoughts on some
topics you touched on.
> I've yet to see a single guy just "go dancing" and learn
> to dance tango (or any other partner dance). Of course, >
this depends on your definition of learning a dance >versus
my understanding of being able to dance a >particular
partner dance......
I think youre right about this regarding the current
generation of tango dancers. Even in earlier generations,
there was some instruction or practica going on, though I
get the sense that it was more playful than what we do now.
Id like to think that perhaps one day the tango scene
will regain its former strength and parents will be
teaching their kids, and a young man or woman can "just go
dancing" and not have to do all of the work many of us are
doing today. Some work, surely, but hopefully they will
have an easier time.
A few years ago I asked Maria Cieri (widow of Rudolfo
Cieri) about how they learned. They both started at around
6-7 with their parents. After they wed (in their early
teens), they only danced with each other or with friends.
Our Spanish/French and her English wasnt good enough to
get the whole details, but she talked about dancing to
Pugliese every Friday night for 5 years. Then they stopped
dancing because of the junta, during which she said people
didnt feel like dancing, except at weddings. Twenty years
later, tango revives and they end up doing a performance
for the queen of England. Someone else may know more of
their history than I do, but what struck me was "5 years".
Thats it?! 5 years! And they danced beautifully. I think
we're at least a generation from that.
What I have noticed is a greater interest by young men in
learning to dance compared to the men of my generation who
grew up with John Wayne and war movies on afterschool
television. Perhaps it is all of the videos shown today
with male singers who also dance. I think that bodes well
for all social dances.
> Another oximoronic concept is the one that suggests that
> there are dancers out there with "all the technique" (I
presume they've mastered the technique) and yet they can't
dance tango...... >
Respectfully,
>
> Manuel
>
I interpret those discussions to be about dancers who are
good technically but dont convey the feeling of tango, the
warmth, the connection. Or perhaps they do not interpret
the music successfully. Im not sure one could place these
attributes under technique.
Happy tangos,
Trini de Pittsburgh
P.S. Sorry I missed G&G in Atlanta. I hope you have them
back again.
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