>This is all a bunch of hot air. Howard is doing what he thinks he needs to do in order to defend Tapestry interests. I'm sure he wasn't talking down to anyone.
Agreed. Howard thanks for the job well done and I know EXACTLY where you are coming from with posting that. I have played the role of not understanding my actions on forums and have caused unneeded "noise". Simply put there are ways to make a conversation productive and on the flip side make it seem like a bunch of 7th graders are in study hall doing IM. I had the benefit of seeing Howard's OSCON 2005 presentation and was very pleased with how he is fighting this uphill battle (battle against other frameworks like JSF). Keep up the good work Tapestry team, and we as the community will try our best to provide constructive criticism that aims to better Tapestry and the Java community. Aaron Bartell -----Original Message----- From: Geoff Longman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 7:41 AM To: Tapestry users Subject: Re: Tapestry 4.0 Release Notice on TheServerSide This is all a bunch of hot air. Howard is doing what he thinks he needs to do in order to defend Tapestry interests. I'm sure he wasn't talking down to anyone. Geoff On 1/10/06, Jesse Kuhnert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm sure Howard's email was meant for the few overly ambitious zealout > type of users that will sometimes blindly fight or insight flaming in > a way that makes tapestry look weird. (I'm sure I've personally done > this a few times at one point or another in my life..) > > Is it really this important? Who cares.. Cut him a break, he did > create this awesome framework for us :) > > On 1/10/06, kranga <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > These guidelines are nothing new. The essential principles are: > > > > 1) People respond to criticism negatively, however wrong they are > > and however right you are. This is true of the person on death-row, > > the white color criminal, the 80 year old grandma. Therefore, don't criticize. > > 2) Never debate using empty superlatives. E.g. this framework is > > faster/easier/nicer/ etc. This implies that you are making the > > judgment for others. Simply present what you like about your > > framework, just the raw facts. If your readers aren't smart enough > > to deduce that your feature is an improvement over the other > > frameworks, then they aren't worth evangelizing too! > > 3) Everyone wants to hear real-world stories. Lots of framework > > ideas look good on paper and fall apart in production. > > > > > > That said, what's with the shipping with 50 components. I'd hardly > > call the form a component, even if it is built as a component. Do > > you seriously think a framework could exist without that? Its like > > an HTML editor software claiming they support 50 HTML tags! > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Lindsay Steele" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Tapestry users" <[email protected]> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 7:49 AM > > Subject: Re: Tapestry 4.0 Release Notice on TheServerSide > > > > > > >I think Howards email was great, you take what you want out of it. > > > > > > I think everyone can agree that the more Tapestry flourishes, the better > > > it is for it's users and the product itself. Like many things, > > > being a good product alone is not aways good enough to ensure > > > reasonable popularity - good marketing is always helpful. > > > > > > The thing is, unlike some other new frameworks, Tapestry doesn't have > > a > > > big corporate entity that can throw all sorts > > > of resources at it for marketing purposes. To a certain extent > > > marketing has to be done by the users and giving them a few > > > friendly tips on how to market it better is not going to hurt. > > > > > > Good on Howard for giving people a heads up on news items, tips on > > > good honest marketing and encouraging people to get the word out there. > > > > > > Francis Amanfo wrote: > > > > > >>Howard, > > >> > > >>This is really cheating! We are all grown ups and need no > > >>suggetions as > > to > > >>how we should compose our e-mails. We are not babies that need to > > >>be > > spoon > > >>fed. > > >> > > >>F > > >> > > >>On 1/9/06, Howard Lewis Ship <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> > > >>>Please visit the article, > > >>>http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=38407 , > > >>>and show your support for Tapestry. > > >>> > > >>>Guidelines: > > >>> > > >>>No bashing of other frameworks. > > >>> > > >>>No flamewars. Be polite. Many will have closed minds and > > >>>belligerant attitudes. They can not be saved from themselves, and > > >>>will be first against the wall when the revolution comes. > > >>> > > >>>Simple is better. Say something like "I just discoverred > > >>>Tapestry after using StrutsWorkMVC and was amazed at how fast my > > >>>productivity skyrocketted. The fact that you can <insert > > >>>favorite feature here> is simply amazing. I highly recommend Tapestry." > > >>> > > >>>People will respond to anecodotes better than vague praise. For > > >>>example "When you make mistakes, Tapestry does an amazing job of > > >>>presenting the exception to you, with a flood of data about the > > >>>request and session, and even a snippet from the template file > > >>>highlighting the error." This is better than "Tapestry error > > >>>handling is better." > > >>> > > >>>If you use Tapestry or have ever benefitted from support on the > > >>>user mailing list, this is your chance to take five minutes and > > >>>pay back some of the effort the Tapestry team has invested in the community. > > >>>Major releases are a chance to generate more excitement around > > >>>Tapestry. > > >>> > > >>>-- > > >>>Howard M. Lewis Ship > > >>>Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant Creator, Jakarta > > >>>Tapestry Creator, Jakarta HiveMind > > >>> > > >>>Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support and project > > >>>work. http://howardlewisship.com > > >>> > > >>>----------------------------------------------------------------- > > >>>---- To unsubscribe, e-mail: > > >>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >>>For additional commands, e-mail: > > >>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --- To unsubscribe, e-mail: > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > For additional commands, e-mail: > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > -- The Spindle guy. http://spindle.sf.net Get help with Spindle: http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/spindle-user Announcement Feed: http://www.jroller.com/rss/glongman?catname=/Announcements Feature Updates: http://spindle.sf.net/updates --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
