Hoffming, I'm all for exploration and experimenting. In my earlier days I used to play a lot of Mon's tunes in different keys just to see how they worked outside the key they were recorded in. I think that I gained some very useful information about the use of the style. B flat is a good key. Kenny Baker has some of his finest moments there, mostly in playing old hymns. Very pretty stuff. Seems like keys like B flat, E flat and F have taken their turn as popular keys for string band players and passed into relative obscurity, probably due to...er,...uhm...Bill Monroe. Sorry, Hoss. I find myself wondering if these are predominantly horn keys and if it was the norm way back when to follow suit on stringed instruments.
I don't reckon that most people (eg: the public) even knows what key you're in, much less cares. So, unless you haven't clued in the rest of the members of your group what you're fixing to do, I can't see why it would piss anybody off. I do agree/appreciate the exploration aspect. On the capo issue, I say we all (all 200-some-odd members) go out and buy a capo, put it on our fingerboards, take a photo and send it to Mandolin Cafe. We are henceforth the Caponic Mandolinarian Society! Oh yea, everybody tune to E flat... Taterboy On Nov 18, 9:55 pm, Mike Hoffmann <[email protected]> wrote: > Well, I am mostly playing for myself, so I think I do these types of > things for educational purposes, and you are right it probably would > sound better in the original key. Although some friends and I play > Bury me beneath the weeping willow as a blues in Bb, why, because we > play a lot of Miss. Sheiks blues in Bb (think Blue sky blues) and like > the way things sound there, so we messed around with Weeping Willow as > a blues instrumental. We played it once, it was fun, we played it > again. Not complete folly, but again, we are playing for ourselves. > Perhaps the reason some friends of mine had a band and they called it > Folly. Folly is a funny word! Sally Goodin in E flat, well you could > play the low and high octaves both in first position without using an > open tuning, that is one advantage. You would have to convince the > other members of your jam/group/local preservation society, that is > one disadvantage. I think these things are done out of boredom, a > sense of exploration, and just to piss people off. > > On Nov 18, 2009, at 6:05 PM, mistertaterbug wrote: > > > No, you won't give me shit either because I've got better things to do > > and won't listen to it. > > > I also see no reason to learn tunes in oddball keys just for the sake > > of it, though I will admit there is an education there. Tunes are > > played in the keys they are played in for a reason, mainly because > > that's where they work the best as far as fingerings and "palette". > > The are a few people who can take a tune and rework it to great > > effect, truly (say Dick Barrett) but I think it to be folly to play > > "Sally Goodin" in E flat. Why do it? > > TBug > > > On Nov 18, 10:41 am, Dasspunk <[email protected]> wrote: > >> And I'll be myself and give you shit about it regularly ;) > > >> B > > >> On Nov 18, 8:56 am, Mike Hedding <[email protected]> wrote: > > >>> Alright at the advice of everyone I am going to just be myself then. > > >>> I am keeping my tuner on my headstock and no one is going to > >>> stop me! > > >>> Mike Hedding > > >>> On Nov 18, 2009, at 7:53 AM, mistertaterbug > >>> <[email protected]> > >>> wrote: > > >>>> If anyone cares to, go to "Remember the Cross" and "That Home > >>>> Above" > >>>> by the Monroe/Flatt/Scruggs/Wise/Rainwater band. One is clearly > >>>> B, the > >>>> other B flat. But, they are both clearly played out of A. There > >>>> are a > >>>> number of other noteworthy cuts, "The First Whippoorwill" for one, > >>>> that are played out of one key but are clearly not pitched in that > >>>> key. So, did fucking Bill Monroe (to quote fucking Gaudreau) tune > >>>> up > >>>> or capo up? It's not tape drag. As Terry Bullin once said,"Well, > >>>> maybe > >>>> he did it in the studio but surely he wouldn't have done it out in > >>>> public." It's just silly. If the situation requires a different > >>>> voice > >>>> and the capo provides it, use it. When did it become against the > >>>> rules > >>>> to use the tools? > > >>>> I started using a capo now and then due to saving time and > >>>> aggravation > >>>> in the studio. Also, open tunings. I'd really love to use more open > >>>> tunings. Listen to the cut on Dr. Ralph's recording of "Lift Him > >>>> Up". > >>>> That's tuned open, but there were a few songs where we tuned open > >>>> only > >>>> to have TBone say that he'd like to go up a half step. Now, > >>>> retuning 8 > >>>> strings on a mandolin every which way and expecting it to settle > >>>> down > >>>> in a few minutes is just unreasonable. Slapping on a capo is not, > >>>> especially when time is money. > > >>>> As for working up solos and improvising... > >>>> I think that maybe we can go back to "the Father" one more time and > >>>> consider this approach. Over the years, if I listen to songs that > >>>> Monroe did over a number of decades, such as "Uncle Pen", "On and > >>>> On", > >>>> "Bluegrass Breakdown", etc, what I hear is a script, a framework > >>>> over > >>>> which variations are applied. I'm not talking about the > >>>> construction > >>>> of the song so much as I am the construction of his solos in the > >>>> song. > >>>> It seems that he worked out a solo that served as the basic > >>>> pattern to > >>>> follow, but changed small aspects of it occasionally as his whim > >>>> dictated. But the basic "script" was predominantly the same. This > >>>> may > >>>> be helpful, maybe not. Just thought I'd throw it out there. > > >>>> I had a short conversation with Russ Barenburg the other day and > >>>> the > >>>> subject of improvisation came up. He said that he occasionally has > >>>> people ask him about improvising, as do I. It's really an > >>>> individual > >>>> learning experience and there doesn't seem to be any one way to > >>>> approach it or teach it. He said that to him it is ridiculous to > >>>> assume that it is possible to whip out an improvised solo that > >>>> rivals > >>>> something that requires one sitting down and working it out and > >>>> learning it over the course of say, several months. But that > >>>> seems to > >>>> be what some people assume they will be able to do with a few > >>>> "rules". I think that it is easy to overlook the fact that the > >>>> sound > >>>> our heros have/had did not just appear overnight but took > >>>> sometimes a > >>>> lifetime of blood, sweat, and tears to acquire. There is too much > >>>> impatience in us all. > > >>>> I think that Eric has a valid point, that being each song > >>>> deserves a > >>>> look to see what the best approach is. I agree with Eric too (Who > >>>> is > >>>> this Eric guy? He seems to know a lot of stuff...) regarding using > >>>> tunings and capos, if a person wants a specific sound, go where > >>>> it is > >>>> regardless of how you need to get there. As John Hartford used to > >>>> say > >>>> (and I know I've quoted him saying this before...), "This is art > >>>> and > >>>> there ain't no damned rules." > > >>>> Be bold, be yourself, be honest. The audience can spot a phony from > >>>> the back row. > > >>>> Puhtater > > >>>> On Nov 17, 6:46 pm, [email protected] wrote: > >>>>> Ron Spears tells a very good Jimmy Gaudreau capo story. At a gig > >>>>> somewhere, Jimmy put a capo on his mandolin and Ron > >>>>> gave him the "hairy eyeball" as only Ron can do and Jimmy got > >>>>> right > >>>>> in Ron's face and says "I ain't fucking Bill Monroe." > >>>>> Might even be true. > > >>>>> Clyde Clevenger > >>>>> Just My Opinion, But It's Right > >>>>> Salem, Oregon > >>>>> Old Circle > > >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>> From: "Don Grieser" <[email protected]> > >>>>> To: [email protected] > >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 4:36:23 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > >>>>> Pacific > >>>>> Subject: Re: Thinking more outside of a Jam > > >>>>> I saw Jimmy Gaudreau use a capo on his mandolin at a bluegrass > >>>>> festival. It sounded great. It's a tool. Use it for a certain > >>>>> sound > >>>>> or > >>>>> effect but not because you're too lazy to learn to play in Bb or > >>>>> B. > >>>>> Monroe style players play out of closed positions anyway even when > >>>>> they don't have to, right? > > >>>> -- > > >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >>>> Groups "Taterbugmando" group. > >>>> To post to this group, send email to > >>>> [email protected]. > >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> . > >>>> For more options, visit this group > >>>> athttp://groups.google.com/group/taterbugmando?hl= > >>>> . > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups "Taterbugmando" group. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > [email protected] > > . > > For more options, visit this group > > athttp://groups.google.com/group/taterbugmando?hl= > > . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Taterbugmando" group. 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